UCCan Statement on Medical Assistance in Dying

[BetteTheRed]

Jae, when was the last time you spent serious time with a person dying of cancer? I'm asking you, because I have, and that is not the way that I prefer to die. If you had a dog with terminal cancer, would you force it to suffer through every last second of its life, or would you ask a vet to make the ending easier?

 

[Luce NDs]

Jae, when was the last time you spent serious time with a person dying of cancer? I'm asking you, because I have, and that is not the way that I prefer to die. If you had a dog with terminal cancer, would you force it to suffer through every last second of its life, or would you ask a vet to make the ending easier?

That is beyond emotional energies ... and energy is a power ... in all calm ... would the non-energetic be the devil to those over energized ... sort of like lightning's relation to tunder in Ja Hzus ... expressions on the struggles of Gods ... tis interim!

This too will Passover ... did you know that energy is a mystery to scientists ... people hoo question are sometimes called agnostics ... demos to those that don't wish to know more ... thus silence! Something from which to scratch out ...

 

[Jaebius]

Jae, when was the last time you spent serious time with a person dying of cancer?

About 12 years ago.

I'm asking you, because I have, and that is not the way that I prefer to die.

It isn't the way I'd prefer to die either. However, I don't feel how we die should be a matter of personal preference. We shouldn't play God saying, "Oh, I shall die this way," or, "Oh, I shall die that way." Not everything should be a matter of our choosing imho.

If you had a dog with terminal cancer, would you force it to suffer through every last second of its life, or would you ask a vet to make the ending easier?

Do you not see a difference between humans, who are created in the imago Dei, and animals who are not?

(As an aside, I would not have a dog. Cats > dogs )

 

[BetteTheRed]

Fine, don't choose. Those of us who feel that we have free will, will choose. I don't really care what other people decide for themselves. I care when they pass judgment on other people's choices.

 

[Jaebius]

Fine, don't choose. Those of us who feel that we have free will, will choose. I don't really care what other people decide for themselves. I care when they pass judgment on other people's choices.

Where do you see the passing of judgment. What I offered was my personal reaction to the student's comment.

As for free will, the will is freed only by the great bondage breaker Jesus Christ. Before Christ saves a person, that person's will is in bondage to sin. Hence, the majority of people do not have free will.

 

[Luce NDs]

There is a preaching of free will .. and yet censuring of when a person might wish to Dei ... is that restricting God and free will?

If God is control of death ... would this be encompassed in the greater human psyche and nothing to do with individual dogma that may be overruled by catharsis .. a kind of wash of soul material! Freud called this he death wish ... often deep in those with excess desire for lives and wish to control other lives ... source of para citis? Not true neighbouring ... a wish to oppress proximal conditions?

@ Jae ... ever study proxemics? It "too" is a 3 part thingy ... like body/soul/emotions ... some of eM far out ... bleached out and some dirty angels ... the dirt on life and the inequalities here of some conditional humans that allow no question for some kind of fear? Loss of oligarchy ... thus the fetch/fish slipped away ... why the soul has retrievers and cats ...

Is god stunned by humanity and all creation having more or less of this stunning nature as a part of God?

Strikes me as beyond normal ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Para normal a word or just in title? Entitlement!

 

[revjohn]

The friend is not going to die of cancer now though Bette. Rather, he will be killed by a doctor.

And you would prefer that he be killed by cancer. No pain or suffering too good for him I imagine.

If I was in my fellow student's place, I would be more emotional about that.

Or maybe you wouldn't.

It strikes me that you somehow think that your classmate's friend's decision is more about you than it is about your classmate's friend.

And beyond that, you think that walking in your classmate's shoes would result in you still being you.

That is pretty oblivious thinking.

 

[Luce NDs]

And you would prefer that he be killed by cancer. No pain or suffering too good for him I imagine.



Or maybe you wouldn't.

It strikes me that you somehow think that your classmate's friend's decision is more about you than it is about your classmate's friend.

And beyond that, you think that walking in your classmate's shoes would result in you still being you.

That is pretty oblivious thinking.

Thus the shadow stomps and dances ... in shoes of the person that doen't even know that alter consciousness is there ... yetii!

Yetus? Quite a pare 'n down ...

 

[Jaebius]

And you would prefer that he be killed by cancer. No pain or suffering too good for him I imagine.

What a monstrous thought John, "No pain or... imagine." I mean, what is that?! What I stand against is the killing of one human being by another. It is in keeping with my being pro-life. It is the position I believe all who love life should take.

 

[BetteTheRed]

For all of the discussions about this new right to have medical assistance to die, it is these cases - the particularly painful cancers - pancreatic, head and neck, liver - where I can't even imagine questioning a person's right to have their excruciating suffering ended. My ex-husband died never asking for that assistance, having been palliatively sedated to try and reduce the agony of his pain, which even fentanyl couldn't touch. He couldn't be convinced that he wasn't going to get better by some miracle. Sure clarified my plans for myself.

 

[Luce NDs]

What a monstrous thought John, "No pain or... imagine." I mean, what is that?! What I stand against is the killing of one human being by another. It is in keeping with my being pro-life.

Yet we are our own worst enemy ... going to war against the greater self on impulse ... without reason! The nature of pure free will! Rumoured to be self destructive behaviour ... yet few study behavioural psyche ... as psyche and soul is reserved ... preserved? Out of question?

 

[revjohn]

What I stand against is the killing of one human being by another.

Yes. Clearly. So strong is your stand that pain and suffering be damned. I am sure that you will say that you have no objection to pain management though it is clear that your stance will not result in a pain-free death. To reach that pain-free threshold it would be necessary to prescribe pain-killers at routinely lethal doses.

So, in the end, you opt for individuals to suffer unto death and there is no amount of suffering that they could undergo that will get you to change your stand.

It is in keeping with my being pro-life.

Suffering will be a part of that life so apart from being pro-life you are pro-suffering. A monstrous thought I am sure you safely hide from by ignoring that suffering will happen.

 

[Jaebius]

Yes. Clearly. So strong is your stand that pain and suffering be damned. I am sure that you will say that you have no objection to pain management though it is clear that your stance will not result in a pain-free death. To reach that pain-free threshold it would be necessary to prescribe pain-killers at routinely lethal doses.

So, in the end, you opt for individuals to suffer unto death and there is no amount of suffering that they could undergo that will get you to change your stand.



Suffering will be a part of that life so apart from being pro-life you are pro-suffering. A monstrous thought I am sure you safely hide from by ignoring that suffering will happen.

Actually John, what I'd prefer to see is everyone die a natural death with little pain and suffering.

I do not root on pain and suffering, though apparently for some reason you've chosen to try to paint me as one who does.

Neither will I root for people having the decision to allow doctors to kill them.

 

[Luce NDs]

The desire for life nails one at the point of cross-over ... the Hebrew called this onyx, a dark veiled crystal for sure ... hiding what's in it ... when the right time ... one will jump! Jumped up Jack ... if the soul is lightened and not weighted by heavies ...

Tis best to nail the other guise in the game ... the human efforts to increased competition to hoo knows what ... few of us will admit we don't know eternal affairs ...

Careful the Romans will nail yah ... at some powerful protocol ... no questions allowed ...

 

[BetteTheRed]

Actually John, what I'd prefer to see is everyone die a natural death with little pain and suffering.

But that's not reality. I'd like to watch a parade of rainbow unicorns trot down my street, personally.

 

[Lastpointe]

I Am only uneasy when I see things that seem to be stretching the guidelines. I was uneasy reading about the couple in the globe last week. Who chose to die together. Even though it appeared they were still enjoying a good quality of life. Dinner out with friends two days before, dinner out with family day before

While there were medical issues, at least the way it was reported, which likely wasn’t totqlly accurate, it did feel odd to me.

Now , my husband , who does have cancer, did not feel the same way I did , so I realize it is likely just my own issue. But .....

 

[revjohn]

Actually John, what I'd prefer to see is everyone die a natural death with little pain and suffering.

On this I think we are close to agreement. I would prefer natural death with no pain or suffering rather than "little" simply because it is difficult to objectively evaluate the pain of another.

So, if the ideals are dying naturally with no, or little, pain and suffering we have two considerations as we build an ethical response.

What is dying unnaturally?

When does pain exceed the "little" and what do we do then?

I do not root on pain and suffering, though apparently for some reason you've chosen to try to paint me as one who does.

You may not root it on. You've demonstrated nothing which shows that you don't ultimately bow to pain and suffering and permit that it must happen no matter how greatly to anyone else.

You, of course, have the freedom to live with as much pain and suffering as dying can dish out. That is a perfectly valid choice for you to make. Why do you deny that others have valid reasoning for not enduring as much pain and suffering as dying can dish out?

Neither will I root for people having the decision to allow doctors to kill them.

Which is where you wind up rooting for pain and suffering. As much as you would prefer it be little and as much as I would prefer it be none there is no way that you or I can actually enforce either. Pain and suffering will be greater than either of us would prefer so, will we do something about that or nothing?

At most, your position basically says all pain is little pain and beyond that, suck it up.

At most, my position basically says there is a limit and folk can decide for themselves what that limit is.

 

[Luce NDs]

My dad was always pro life ... until a few days before his death. Sitting watch all nights with him ... one day he said at 6-7:00 AM .. he directed me to take him home and blow his brains out ... a day or so after calling me a SOW ... not a son of a hoo!

So much for piggy's ... those demanding what they wish ... suffering alternation of desires? Could that be evolution?

 

[Luce NDs]

On this I think we are close to agreement. I would prefer natural death with no pain or suffering rather than "little" simply because it is difficult to objectively evaluate the pain of another.

So, if the ideals are dying naturally with no, or little, pain and suffering we have two considerations as we build an ethical response.

What is dying unnaturally?

When does pain exceed the "little" and what do we do then?



You may not root it on. You've demonstrated nothing which shows that you don't ultimately bow to pain and suffering and permit that it must happen no matter how greatly to anyone else.

You, of course, have the freedom to live with as much pain and suffering as dying can dish out. That is a perfectly valid choice for you to make. Why do you deny that others have valid reasoning for not enduring as much pain and suffering as dying can dish out?



Which is where you wind up rooting for pain and suffering. As much as you would prefer it be little and as much as I would prefer it be none there is no way that you or I can actually enforce either. Pain and suffering will be greater than either of us would prefer so, will we do something about that or nothing?

At most, your position basically says all pain is little pain and beyond that, suck it up.

At most, my position basically says there is a limit and folk can decide for themselves what that limit is.

Few people understand the goings on upon the 8th chromosome ...