TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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How Trudeau can keep his promise to change Canada’s election law

  • The Globe and Mail (Ontario Edition)
  • September 22, 2020
  • DAVID BEATTY Emeritus professor at the University of Toronto faculty of law
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CARLO ALLEGRI/REUTERS
In the 2015 federal election, Justin Trudeau promised to change Canada’s election law. It would be the last time, he said, that votes would be counted according to a system known as “first past the post.”
The system divides a country into geographic constituencies, assigns a seat in the legislature to each, and awards them to the candidates who get the most (but not necessarily a majority of) votes in each riding. It is primarily used in countries that are, or were, connected with Britain.
In 2017, Mr. Trudeau announced he had decided not to keep his promise. As a result, the election in 2019 was fought on the same rules that made him Prime Minister in 2015.
It turned out to be a brilliant decision. By breaking his promise, the Liberals were able to retain power even though they lost the popular vote.
Two weeks prior to the 2019 election, non-profit group Fair Voting British Columbia decided to hold Mr. Trudeau to his promise.
It filed a case in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice asserting that his decision to retain first past the post was illegal. The organization said the system violated the right to vote that is guaranteed in the Charter of Rights.
Although it has not attracted a lot of attention in the press, Fair Voting BC’s challenge to the Canada Election Act should be big news. Its chances of winning are very good.
It turns out that first past the post treats voters very unfairly. You only have to look at the 2019 election to see how perverse the system is.
Mr. Trudeau was only able to hang on to power because the Liberals won 36 more seats in Parliament than the Conservatives, even though they received 200,000 fewer votes.
Because of the way the Canada Elections Act counts votes, Liberal voters were able to claim a seat in the House of Commons for every 38,000 votes they cast. By comparison, it took 125,000 votes for the NDP and more than 300,000 votes for the Greens to elect one of their own.
The Supreme Court of Canada has already signalled that such huge discrepancies in voting power are not compatible with the Charter.
In an earlier case, it ruled that Canada’s election laws must ensure every Canadian “equal and effective representation.” According to the court, voting systems “that dilute one citizen’s vote unduly as compared with another citizen’s vote run the risk of providing inadequate representation to the citizen whose vote is diluted.”
The distortion in the representation of voters who opposed Mr. Trudeau in 2019 defies the most basic principle of majority rule. Mr. Trudeau is still in power only because Liberal votes carried more weight than those cast by supporters of the other parties.
Environmentalists in Canada have less influence shaping federal policy than they do in countries that use other vote-counting systems because of the way our election laws devalue their votes.
If votes for the Greens had counted the same as Liberal ballots, they would have 30 seats in the House of Commons instead of three. Social democrats (NDP) would have 75 instead of 24.
Fair Voting BC’s case is a classic example of how Charter challenges can make government more democratic. It is a powerful way of making sure politicians do their jobs.
Striking down the voting system used by the Canada Elections Act will force Mr. Trudeau or another prime minister to consider other systems, such as proportional representation or single transferable vote, which are widely used in other countries and are much less discriminatory.
The case will begin some time this fall or early next year.
If it moves through the courts at the usual pace, it will be another four to five years before we have a final answer. Even assuming it succeeds, it will come at a cost of several million dollars and the likelihood of Mr. Trudeau being able to profit from his broken promise yet again.
This case need not take so long or come at such a steep price.
There is an alternative procedure available to Mr. Trudeau that allows the government to refer questions, such as the constitutionality of the Canada Elections Act, directly to the Supreme Court of Canada.
Fast-tracking the case to the Supreme Court would allow Mr. Trudeau to redeem his promise. It would mean Canadians would never have to vote in a rigged election again.
When Parliament reconvenes on Sept. 23, the opposition parties should insist it is the first order of business.
 
Try living in rural Alberta where only Conservative votes end up counting

Try being a Green supporter almost anywhere outside Vancouver Island and the Lower Mainland. Or Guelph (they elected the Ontario Green leader as their MPP last provincial election).

But why are we discussing this in the Trump thread rather than the thread speculating on our election?
 
It looks like Trump wants to steal this election - just in case he doesn't legally win it.

The mail-in ballots, it seems, are his pretense for an excuse for shenanigans that undermine voting.

This doesn't look good for democracy - for this election and beyond.
 
They need to have independent observers at the mail in offices, as well as the voting stations, I think. That's what happens when there are doubts about corruption-free elections in other countries.
Like that's gonna happen :oops: I think that idea has been batted around a bit, but I can't imaging it being approved. I agree it's needed. Doesn't the UN do this sort of thing?
 
What I am surprised at is that democrats don’t start a new campaign

voting in person is no more dangerous than going to the grocery store!
wear your mask. Keep your distance. Use wipes and hand sanitizer


there really is no reason to panic about voting


i remember the uproar over Bush Gore and the Florida vote


where w all learned the term Hanging Chad
 
What I am surprised at is that democrats don’t start a new campaign

voting in person is no more dangerous than going to the grocery store!
wear your mask. Keep your distance. Use wipes and hand sanitizer


there really is no reason to panic about voting


i remember the uproar over Bush Gore and the Florida vote


where w all learned the term Hanging Chad
Why? What kind of new campaign? There's only a little over a month to go.

Trump is trying to be a nuisance so the mail in ballots are in question, even if there's no problem. He seems to be creating one.
 
They know those who are most unlikely to vote, and those whose voices and votes are needed the most right now are also those most at risk of covid, in poorer neighbourhoods. Where people, working at the grocery store, maybe outside of their district - have to hustle two jobs with no benefits, have to feed their kids and pay a babysitter - don't necessarily get the hours off in enough time to vote. Mail in ballots would make it easier for them to vote, and to decide to vote. Like always, there are populations they'd rather keep down.
 
The danger of voting i person is overblown. And Trump is going to cause lots of issues about mail I ballots

always there are lots. He votes by mail

armed forces members vote by mail. Like 90 million of them or some huge number

out of country people vote by mail, god I hope those living in Canada vote this time

and people who can’t get out, elderly, infirm, nursing home, hospitalized.......

everyone else should just mask up and vote

if they start throwing out ballots I think that will be the end of any semblance of democracy
 
It looks like Trump wants to steal this election - just in case he doesn't legally win it.

The mail-in ballots, it seems, are his pretense for an excuse for shenanigans that undermine voting.

This doesn't look good for democracy - for this election and beyond.

It looks like Trump wants to steal this election - just in case he doesn't legally win it.

The mail-in ballots, it seems, are his pretense for an excuse for shenanigans that undermine voting.

This doesn't look good for democracy - for this election and beyond.
Use logic
How likely is that?
The military and the intelligence services would have to be behind that
(What actual evidence do you have for your concern?)
This I think is an unlikely conspiracy theory



Now look at it from this pov:
Ok. Say you are someone who thinks 45 is the absolute worst. Hitler level bad.
What do you do with someone that bad?
How far are you willing to go?
Cheat and bribe and steal the election because it is for the greater good?

Personally, I think 45 is again doing what he does. Says stuff and corporate media laps it up.

But for those, and there r people who think of 45 as the Worst, how far are they willing to go? And if it does happen...will those who think of 45 as the Worst Hitler etc accept the cheating etc by their side or will they rail against it as if the GOP were behind it?

#MutualAid
#BeNotAfraid
#SystemicWhimsey
#JoyPrivilege


What I am surprised at is that democrats don’t start a new campaign

voting in person is no more dangerous than going to the grocery store!
wear your mask. Keep your distance. Use wipes and hand sanitizer


there really is no reason to panic about voting


i remember the uproar over Bush Gore and the Florida vote


where w all learned the term Hanging Chad
Oh Florida...you scamp

They could. Using social media.

And if they r afraid of the mail, I think the beat thing would b to:
1. Support the USPS (write letters, buy stamps and lots of them)
2. Drop off your ballot to a drop box if you can

I think we r again seeing tribalism in action here helped by the destablizing nature of social media and corporate media

The corporate media seems 2 want a race war. The corporate media is making bank with 45. The media that go Woke go broke. Social media destabilizes and encourages polarization (which, along with this Pandemic, is reason enuf for Woke religion spreading so far, which again when institutionalized will hurt the oppressed and the marginalized and not those with Real Power)

#MutualAid
#BeNotAfraid
#SystemicWhimsey
#JoyPrivilege
 
The left can’t meme.

Lol
I still enjoy that Comedian
And his attempts at having real discussions with people sans the Tribalisms
(And why the left cant meme is a good Marxist book)

Of course not everyone can meme
Just like not everyone can Truck or Pipefit

The left in Hong Kong have some pretty good memes

Ya just hafta look. Humour can b found everywhere

And it is FREE

(Just more difficult in USA cause their Left is really Right...so much bickering over how many authoritarians can fit in a feeding trough)


#MutualAid
#BeNotAfraid
#SystemicWhimsey
#JoyPrivilege
 
CNN is among the least "news-y" of stations in my opionion.

That clip was no fact, all innuendo. Can we do a little better than that?
 
Is humour common and we just can't grasp it as a meme?

Thus un meme orie'd ... or less read into than expected! Some depth of the pool should be expected ... people do pile up en masse!
 
Use logic
How likely is that?
The military and the intelligence services would have to be behind that
(What actual evidence do you have for your concern?)
This I think is an unlikely conspiracy theory



Now look at it from this pov:
Ok. Say you are someone who thinks 45 is the absolute worst. Hitler level bad.
What do you do with someone that bad?
How far are you willing to go?
Cheat and bribe and steal the election because it is for the greater good?

Personally, I think 45 is again doing what he does. Says stuff and corporate media laps it up.

But for those, and there r people who think of 45 as the Worst, how far are they willing to go? And if it does happen...will those who think of 45 as the Worst Hitler etc accept the cheating etc by their side or will they rail against it as if the GOP were behind it?

#MutualAid
#BeNotAfraid
#SystemicWhimsey
#JoyPrivilege



Oh Florida...you scamp

They could. Using social media.

And if they r afraid of the mail, I think the beat thing would b to:
1. Support the USPS (write letters, buy stamps and lots of them)
2. Drop off your ballot to a drop box if you can

I think we r again seeing tribalism in action here helped by the destablizing nature of social media and corporate media

The corporate media seems 2 want a race war. The corporate media is making bank with 45. The media that go Woke go broke. Social media destabilizes and encourages polarization (which, along with this Pandemic, is reason enuf for Woke religion spreading so far, which again when institutionalized will hurt the oppressed and the marginalized and not those with Real Power)

#MutualAid
#BeNotAfraid
#SystemicWhimsey
#JoyPrivilege
It's fairly likely. They wouldn't have to be behind the propaganda necessarily - just those on his campaign. And he's a con-man so he's always going to want people to think the other side is cheating while he cheats. "Hey look over there!" It's like a David Mamet movie. The long con. He's still playing it, and Scott Adams is helping (I hear Adams in your comment about logic - he probably said all that recently).

Use your logic. First understand Trump logic is entirely self centred around winning - always - it's always about him. He's not broadly, democratically logical. Dems are the ones who support mail-in ballots. They are not the ones looking to cause mail trouble so Trump can have a tantrum about voter suppression and turn around and limit voting. Maybe the people who threw away a handful of ballots were Trump supporters who knew those ballots wouldn't make a difference to red states but would add fuel to Trump's propaganda about mail-in voting being a Dem cheaters dream. It's obvious. Trump's own paranoia about losing is more likely to cause him to cheat elaborately. And he's got a bunch of Supreme Court judges who support his presidency, whom he deliberately appointed.

Don't let Scott Adams tell you otherwise. He's also a con-artist. He's not there to help you.
 
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CNN is among the least "news-y" of stations in my opionion.

That clip was no fact, all innuendo. Can we do a little better than that?

I gave up on them when they started just latching on to the biggest story of the day and refusing to let go, ignoring pretty much all unrelated news, until they had drained all possible life from it. I think it began when they got record ratings for their OJ coverage but maybe there are earlier examples I am forgetting right now.

CNN International, which is sometimes the only English language channel I get when travelling in some parts of the world, is actually much better in this regard.
 
It's fairly likely. They wouldn't have to be behind the propaganda necessarily - just those on his campaign. And he's a con-man so he's always going to want people to think the other side is cheating while he cheats. "Hey look over there!" It's like a David Mamet movie. The long con. He's still playing it, and Scott Adams is helping (I hear Adams in your comment about logic - he probably said all that recently).

Use your logic. First understand Trump logic is entirely self centred around winning - always - it's always about him. He's not broadly, democratically logical. Dems are the ones who support mail-in ballots. They are not the ones looking to cause mail trouble so Trump can have a tantrum about voter suppression and turn around and limit voting. Maybe the people who threw away a handful of ballots were Trump supporters who knew those ballots wouldn't make a difference to red states but would add fuel to Trump's propaganda about mail-in voting being a Dem cheaters dream. It's obvious. Trump's own paranoia about losing is more likely to cause him to cheat elaborately. And he's got a bunch of Supreme Court judges who support his presidency, whom he deliberately appointed.

Don't let Scott Adams tell you otherwise. He's also a con-artist. He's not there to help you.
Oh yeah. And it was Trump. The president himself - who suggested to people that they vote twice - mail in and in person - and see what works. Fortunately, ballots have a bar code or serial number on them and the one that makes it to counting first gets counted first. The second one would not be counted, is what I read. But that comment he made to supporters was corrupt. I can't believe a president of the United States said that to the public. He's the one casting doubt on the integrity of the elections. Trump himself. It's not the Dems. Use your logic @Inannawhimsey

It must be a frightening time for Americans.
 
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