TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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Kimmio said:
@Inannawhimsey this from chansen is not "help". I don't really care if he felt the need to insult me but, its his issue, but it is not "help", and it wasn't asked for anyway. It's like saying the person who just smacked another in the head because they felt like it, was only trying to help. He was unloading his own frustration - whether misplaced or not - onto me to make me feel insulted. It wasn't "help".


Stop gaslighting or we won't be conversing again.
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Again stop throwing around words that you don't mean on their actual specific shared context. My father gaslit me and I do know what that actually is so please do f*** OFF aboot it, eh? Gaslighting DOESNT MEAN WHATEVER HURTS YOU EMOTIONALLY. Trying to stick gaslighting on me I find hurtful and very offensive.

I do hope you can take back that accusation.

I was trying to offer an alternate INTERPRETATION of chansen for you to CONSIDER. I CAN'T control your thoughts or your feelings. No one can.

That bit you quoted I see as chansen saying he doesn't want your amen in that specific instance? I gave the possible interpretation of steelmanning of his ENTIRE DIALOGUING he has had with you. To strengthen your propositions. Can't you see the compassion in that, his humanity, him actually frustrating himself in trying to help you, at least a little bit?

I am ready to talk with you as a real person again
Please stop being a complete fool and dialogue with me. Stop turning people into sources of your anger and anxiety (an interpretation). I don't know how you are going to stop that but it is sincerely interfering with our ability to communicate with you, which is a 2 way street, not 1 way.

Criminy,
Inannawhimsey

PS. Does anyone know if the final results for the midterms are in?

Pps sorry for the derail, Mendalla. Ty for trying to get the thread to some sort of normalacy.
 
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Inannawhimsey said:
Again stop throwing around words that you don't mean on their actual specific shared context. My father gaslit me and I do know what that actually is so please do f*** OFF aboot it, eh? Gaslighting DOESNT MEAN WHATEVER HURTS YOU EMOTIONALLY. Trying to stick gaslighting on me I find hurtful and very offensive.

I do hope you can take back that accusation.

I was trying to offer an alternate INTERPRETATION of chansen for you to CONSIDER. I CAN'T control your thoughts or your feelings. No one can.

That bit you quoted I see as chansen saying he doesn't want your amen in that specific instance? I gave the possible interpretation of steelmanning of his ENTIRE DIALOGUING he has had with you. To strengthen your propositions. Can't you see the compassion in that, his humanity, him actually frustrating himself in trying to help you, at least a little bit?

I am ready to talk with you as a real person again
Please stop being a complete fool and dialogue with me. Stop turning people into sources of your anger and anxiety (an interpretation). I don't know how you are going to stop that but it is sincerely interfering with our ability to communicate with you, which is a 2 way street, not 1 way.

Criminy,
Inannawhimsey

PS. Does anyone know if the final results for the midterms are in?

Pps sorry for the derail, Mendalla. Ty for trying to get the thread to some sort of normalacy.
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My mother did it too. Worse than this. But I can still recognize it when it's subtle.

Inanna, I am being straight up. You repeatedly go after me as if everything I have to say of any importance is a result of some misplaced personal "feelings" or "anxieties" at times when it's not. And therefore, by doing that, I am put in a place to doubt myself (that is where the subtle gaslighting comes in, whereby you assume the upper hand and tell me I am wrong and that I require your help in correction)...when my opinion about fascism was objective observation. Just because somebody doesn't like me using a word doesn't make it untrue. I could discuss climate change and just call it bad weather patterns - if people object to those words because of their implications - but that doesn't mean climate change is not a factor. If anyone has been using fascism incorrectly it is those saying that about "sjw" types which has weakened it's true meaning at a time when it is not inappropriate to be pointing at where fascism is arising. I have been using it correctly and have given a lengthy explanation in one or more threads. Of course, someone will find fault with a lengthy explanation too, no doubt. Doesn't matter. Someone will find fault.

As for chansen I have no doubt he is capable of compassion and being helpful. As are you. These instances were not, and in fact were being written from a place of negative emotion on his part (which is what he accused me of, and always does. Saying to me that somehow that emotion being involved in a response invalidates it - which it doesn't necessarily.) He was not trying to be helpful by trying to get me to conform my responses to how he would like to read them - and putting me down is not going to help anything. That's his issue.
 
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I approved of his comment and his response was to crap on me. That was not chansen being helpful. You can't twist things to make me believe it was, and say that I'm not seeing the helpfulness because of some personal fault. That's gaslighting. It is. I don't want to hurt your feelings. I would like you to resist the urge to do that in your responses to me.

Where are people jumping in to a conversation not directed at them and asking Chansen to take responsility for his shitty comments? I'm not seeing it.
 
CNN: Donald Trump is 'gaslighting' all of us.
Teen Vogue: Donald Trump Is Gaslighting America.
NBC: Some Experts Say Trump Team's Falsehoods Are Classic 'Gaslighting'.
This is a very specific accusation. To "gaslight" someone isn't just to lie to them or to manipulate their emotions. It is a deliberate attempt to deceive someone into questioning their own perception of reality.

Arendt and others recognized, writes Levy, that “being made to repeat an obvious lie makes it clear that you’re powerless.” She also recognized the function of an avalanche of lies to render a populace powerless to resist, the phenomenon we now refer to as “gaslighting”:

The result of a consistent and total substitution of lies for factual truth is not that the lie will now be accepted as truth and truth be defamed as a lie, but that the sense by which we take our bearings in the real world—and the category of truth versus falsehood is among the mental means to this end---is being destroyed.
 
Is not telling someone that they are watering down the word fascism or implying that they're possibly applying any number of erroneous interpretations of it - and telling them to stop using the word or clarify what's already clear in an attempt to put their own spin on it or make a person doubt their application of the word and their intellect for using it - not gaslighting?... in addition suggesting that someone else was just "being helpful" for deliberately insulting a person for being "half assed in their dissection of an idea" (when they have actually gone to lengths to dissect the idea and that was derided by them also) and saying that person is not someone they want beside them, after that person supported them, also adding fuel to the gaslight? Chansen was not being helpful. He too often takes the opportunity to insult anything I say or how I say it, with ad hominem - then calls it helpful. I was supportive of his comment and he dumped on me. Sorry but it's not helpful - he is anything but helpful to my confidence here - and I don't need to be demeaned by someone else into thinking it is helpful.
 
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I supported chansen's post and he deliberately dumped on me. Then Inanna stuck his nose in with some psych-babble about how chansen is being helpful and I can't see it because of my fears and anxieties or some such thing. There's nothing left worth discussing about it.
 
Poetry slam

*snaps finger-equivalents*
Inannawhimsey

EDIT: sounds like a rejiggering of the ancient "Scorpion and the man" tale
 
Kimmio said:
...Trump continues to be Trump.
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Scum vs. Scum

The elites, Republican and Democrat, belong to the same club. We are not in it. Take a look at the flight roster of the billionaire Jeffrey Epstein, who was accused of prostituting dozens of underage girls and ended up spending 13 months in prison on a single count. He flew political insiders from both parties and the business world to his secluded Caribbean island, known as “Orgy Island,” on his jet, which the press nicknamed “the Lolita Express.” Some of the names on his flight roster, which usually included unidentified women, were Bill Clinton, who took dozens of trips, Alan Dershowitz, former Treasury Secretary and former Harvard President Larry Summers, the Candide-like Steven Pinker, whose fairy dust ensures we are getting better and better, and Britain’s Prince Andrew. Epstein was also a friend of Trump, whom he visited at Mar-a-Lago.

We live on the precipice, the eve of the deluge. Past civilizations have crumbled in the same way, although as Hegel understood, the only thing we learn from history is “that people and governments never have learned anything from history.” We will not arrest the decline if the Democrats regain control of the House. At best we will briefly slow it. The corporate engines of pillage, oppression, ecocide and endless war are untouchable. Corporate power will do its dirty work regardless of which face—the friendly fascist face of the Democrats or the demented visage of the Trump Republicans—is pushed out front. If you want real change, change that means something, then mobilize, mobilize, mobilize, not for one of the two political parties but to rise up and destroy the corporate structures that ensure our doom.
 
Ritafee said:
Scum vs. Scum

The elites, Republican and Democrat, belong to the same club. We are not in it. Take a look at the flight roster of the billionaire Jeffrey Epstein, who was accused of prostituting dozens of underage girls and ended up spending 13 months in prison on a single count. He flew political insiders from both parties and the business world to his secluded Caribbean island, known as “Orgy Island,” on his jet, which the press nicknamed “the Lolita Express.” Some of the names on his flight roster, which usually included unidentified women, were Bill Clinton, who took dozens of trips, Alan Dershowitz, former Treasury Secretary and former Harvard President Larry Summers, the Candide-like Steven Pinker, whose fairy dust ensures we are getting better and better, and Britain’s Prince Andrew. Epstein was also a friend of Trump, whom he visited at Mar-a-Lago.

We live on the precipice, the eve of the deluge. Past civilizations have crumbled in the same way, although as Hegel understood, the only thing we learn from history is “that people and governments never have learned anything from history.” We will not arrest the decline if the Democrats regain control of the House. At best we will briefly slow it. The corporate engines of pillage, oppression, ecocide and endless war are untouchable. Corporate power will do its dirty work regardless of which face—the friendly fascist face of the Democrats or the demented visage of the Trump Republicans—is pushed out front. If you want real change, change that means something, then mobilize, mobilize, mobilize, not for one of the two political parties but to rise up and destroy the corporate structures that ensure our doom.
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Appreciate Chris Hedges - but how do we "rise up and destroy corporate structures"? Acting destructively out of anger - rise up and destroy is not helpful language - that mentality will do more harm than good. The only way it can be done is through a patient and arduous process of electing people committed to changing the system. Just stick to principles and keep plugging along even when opposed. It's a long, long, process.
 
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