TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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Kimmio said:
I read that, monk. His behaviour is nuts, though. Not well, more correctly. And I do not believe all taxation is theft...so, no. And I do not support the right to bear arms nonsense. I am Canadian and I think that particular aspect of the US constitution is problematic and needs amending. I would not vote for him.
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You do not support the individual right to bear arms but you do support the military industrial complex then?
 
Northwind said:
I was reflecting on the role of government recently and thinking we'd be better off without it. I am not a supporter of Libertarianism generally, though I do support some parts of it. I didn't get anywhere with my thinking, I was just reflecting. I think that what we know as "government" is outdated and perhaps no longer useful. It is part of a Colonial past, even the American version in its own way, and there is no place for that kind of system anymore. I can't even begin to imagine how we'd go from what we have to what is better. Perhaps that is for another discussion.
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What better thread to discuss it than this ... imagination is key.
 
monk said:
Yes you do ... you support armed governments that take your taxes and spend them on war. That is what you stand for.
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bulls**t. I am not happy right now that our government is pouring more money into military. I want to see more diplomacy. I do support taxes going to social programs, public schools, libraries...

The unfortunate truth is that if all such support was voluntary...the very people pushing small government would be the greediest of the bunch. It's already evident. And the marginalized would starve to death and/ or remain uneducated and gullible. Maybe homeschooled like the Turpin family (see other thread). Libertarians hide their racism and bigotry well. Their freedom= Abled white male privilege.

So much crap, flying from so many directions...I need to take a shower.
 
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Kimmio said:
The unfortunate truth is that if all such support was voluntary...the very people pushing small government would be the greediest of the bunch. It's already evident. And the marginalized would starve to death and/ or remain uneducated and gullible. Maybe homeschooled like the Turpin family (see other thread). Libertarians hide their racism and bigotry well. Their freedom= Abled white male privilege.

So much crap, flying from so many directions...I need to take a shower.
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Yes crap like - abled white male privilege - what does that mean?
Show me where 'the people pushing small government are the greediest of the bunch' is evident.
 
monk said:
Yes crap like - abled white male privilege - what does that mean?
Show me where 'the people pushing small government are the greediest of the bunch' is evident.
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Read up about it. Homeschool yourself on something from "the other side". Not from one of your "teachers". I don't feel like working to produce the links for you. You probably wouldn't pay attention anyway.
 
monk said:
Yes crap like - abled white male privilege - what does that mean?
Show me where 'the people pushing small government are the greediest of the bunch' is evident.
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I'm missing something......that sounds paranoid........
 
Northwind said:
I'm missing something......that sounds paranoid........
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Did you miss the whole tea party element infultrating the Republican Party? That took awhile to brew. Those things don't just happen overnight. They are bunch of gun totin' survivalists with a libertarian bent, many of them, of fundamentalist Christian persuasion. The fundamentalist Christians are the most vulnerable to it.
Did you miss Duck Dynasty? It got the support of a major TV network, and a huge viewership. Was nobody behind that? That legitimized a lunatic fringe.

Culture shifted.

Alex Jones? Did you miss him?

Who is paranoid? Me, or them?

I think they established themselves on paranoia and are still thriving on paranoia - or at least still surviving on it - on public support for their paranoia...fear pushers, who don't want their subjects and minions educated.
 
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Kimmio said:
@monk
Here...a far more studious and generous take on it than mine:

How Libertarian Democracy Skepticism Infected the American Right - Niskanen Center

libertarianism is ... "Classical liberalism fortified against socialism with a theory of rights that criminalizes redistribution."

...I'll let you think about whether that's true or not, and if so, how that might be fertile ground for greed to thrive.
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I prefer your take on it. Without labels. I have presented a viable candidate for president of the USA. You have dismissed him based on what? He used magic mushrooms? Anyone here done that? He has a gun? Anyone here have one? Stop throwing around labels like they are some indication of character. Do all home schooled children get locked up and starved by their parents? No ... but most neighbors ignore their neighbors and look to the 'government' to fix everything. If I was a next door neighbor to those children I would accept my responsibility for allowing it to happen where I should have been on guard. What do you have against people being responsible for themselves? How does NK factor into your local surroundings?
 
It's not my part of the discussion that is paranoid and unhealthy, northwind. I know you have a grudge against me personally so you won't give my perspective an inch anymore.

That's fine. I'm done.
 
monk said:
I prefer your take on it. Without labels. I have presented a viable candidate for president of the USA. You have dismissed him based on what? He used magic mushrooms? Anyone here done that? He has a gun? Anyone here have one? Stop throwing around labels like they are some indication of character. Do all home schooled children get locked up and starved by their parents? No ... but most neighbors ignore their neighbors and look to the 'government' to fix everything. If I was a next door neighbor to those children I would accept my responsibility for allowing it to happen where I should have been on guard. What do you have against people being responsible for themselves? How does NK factor into your local surroundings?
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You didn't read the article.

Anyway...just to address NK. Geography. A nuclear exchange would definitely put a crimp in doing anything in my local surroundings, as well as for all my neighbours. That shouldn't even need explaining.

As for whatsisname...sure lots of people have done drugs. Lots of people own guns. Those lots of people, if they are still owning guns and concurrently taking psychedelic drugs - seeing as taking psychedelic drugs puts people into deliberate psychotic states - thankfully, are not in high (pardon the pun) leadership positions, one would hope.
 
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monk said:
I prefer your take on it. Without labels. I have presented a viable candidate for president of the USA. You have dismissed him based on what? He used magic mushrooms? Anyone here done that? He has a gun? Anyone here have one? Stop throwing around labels like they are some indication of character. Do all home schooled children get locked up and starved by their parents? No ... but most neighbors ignore their neighbors and look to the 'government' to fix everything. If I was a next door neighbor to those children I would accept my responsibility for allowing it to happen where I should have been on guard. What do you have against people being responsible for themselves? How does NK factor into your local surroundings?
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You make a point of doing this just to annoy me, now. You are never going to let your grudge go, are you? Liking monks irrational posts - extreme libertarianism - actually anyone who disagrees with me -basically gas lighting, is what you're doing. Examine your motivations for 'likes', please. You totally ignored what I said. The rational article I posted. Whatever. You are not engaged in healthy discussion. I don't think you will admit it though - and to speak up to gas lighting makes the one gas lighted look irrational, right? I look nuts pointing it out. @Northwind
 
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monk said:
I prefer your take on it. Without labels. I have presented a viable candidate for president of the USA. You have dismissed him based on what? He used magic mushrooms? Anyone here done that? He has a gun? Anyone here have one? Stop throwing around labels like they are some indication of character. Do all home schooled children get locked up and starved by their parents? No ... but most neighbors ignore their neighbors and look to the 'government' to fix everything. If I was a next door neighbor to those children I would accept my responsibility for allowing it to happen where I should have been on guard. What do you have against people being responsible for themselves? How does NK factor into your local surroundings?
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I agree with what you are saying. Labels have their place if they explain. Using labels to dismiss or promote is not healthy at all. I challenge you though because you are generalizing when you say that "most neighbours ignore their neighbours and look to the government to fix everything". Generalizing is not any better than labels.

I wonder what the neighbours of those kids are feeling now. Anytime there is something like this, I wonder. I also believe that some people are very good at hiding and looking "normal" on the outside.

Your post relates to my comment about labels. It seems that lately anytime there is a discussion, especially online, labels like snowflakes, libtards, right-wingers or whatever get tossed around. How can we have discussions that way? Frankly, I have learned more from people who are on the other side of the political "divide" than from people who think like me. I am part of some knitting groups on FB. Last year the pink "cat" hats raised all kind of crap in those groups. I had some cool private discussions with people who were opposed to the protest. It was very enlightening and I'd like to believe that there was learning on each side.

This is all part of the larger environment that allowed this current president to be elected. Factions on each side are fuelling the fire. If ever there was a time for healthy discussion it is now.
 
See, I don't see anyone on the libertarian side of things as enlightened - but primitive, and regressing back to tribalism, which enables racism and misogyny. They have taken society backwards already. They even got to Northwind. Not everyone's opinion should be given the same amount of airtime or merit. Some historical lessons needn't be re-lived.

Those kids didn't look normal - we're being told. And I don't think the parents looked normal. But the live and let live, don't trample on my rights I won't trample on yours - probably prevented the neighbours from thinking they had any right or social responsibility to do anything.
 
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