TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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Hi Graham,

I have appreciated Ivan Illich's perspective and suggest that his insight supports your perspective.

Illich introduction link

from the article:

"According to Charles Taylor, Illich changes the terms of the debate about Christianity and modernity. Illich says that modernity is neither the fulfillment nor the antithesis of Christianity, but its perversion."

"In accord with such modern writers as Simone Weil, and basing himself on a tradition found most clearly and consistently in the Orthodox churches, Illich concludes that the truth of the folly of the Cross is best understood in the figure of the fool. In a sense, this is the essence of belief in Christianity."

From another article:

"The thrust of Illich’s ideas lies in the phrase, “the corruption of the best is the worst,” and in Jesus’ story of the Good Samaritan. The idea – revolutionary for its time – that anyone could help a stranger, even an enemy, soon became corrupted as the Church took away from individuals the need, and even the right, to provide assistance, leading to today’s labyrinthine institutionalization, and the creation of society’s “helping professions” and legal system. This, in Illich’s view, corrupts Jesus’ message of seeing God in any individual who comes across our path, and destroys our individual freedom and will to act." link to article

I suspect a case could be made that Christendom makes present the inversion of the gospel by which Christ is rendered anti-Christ. The one who showed us the life of a faithful servant presented as a potentate.

Appreciate that you continue to expose the elephant in the room.

George
 
I have a page I must send in some day. It's a list I've been collecting of extraordinarily cruel behaviour by the U.S., Britain, Canada, Spain - and all of it committed by eminent citizens. Hitler was not an unusual figure in history.
Just think - The U.S. is not deliberately starving civilians, including babies, to death in Yemen. Millions are dying. That says something about us. Yes, Trump is part of it. But he follows in the steps of Bush and Obama.
 
I was slow in catching on. And I take no joy in the conclusion I came to. Christianity has never been able to overcome the weakness of our humanity. Today, fundamentalists are demonstrating against abortion at a local hospital. They do this even as we are complicit in the starvation and murder of babies by the million in order to boost profits for oil companies.
And the churches are utterly silent.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
I was slow in catching on. And I take no joy in the conclusion I came to. Christianity has never been able to overcome the weakness of our humanity. Today, fundamentalists are demonstrating against abortion at a local hospital. They do this even as we are complicit in the starvation and murder of babies by the million in order to boost profits for oil companies.
And the churches are utterly silent.
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The sounds of silence are impressive ... just as a further implication of inversion!
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
Well, after all, he is seventy. Not veryhealthy living. Golf cart looks better than a wheelchair.
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Most of the others are about 70 also. I read somewhere that Trump hates exercise. The reason I took notice is that he commented during the campaign about his great health and terrific stamina (and how Hillary didn't have it) - otherwise, needing a mobility aid isn't the issue. I don't think a golf cart looks any better than a wheelchair, anyway. In a wheelchair he could've been alongside the group - but I get the impression he didn't want to anyway. Going for a stroll isn't his thing.
 
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Is it age that builds walls and isolationism ... or the stink raised outside the fabric of the greatest sorts of examples of we don't know what ... unknown gods?

God help us with what we don't know ... it is significant considering the vast field of opinion-ism!
 
Graeme Decarie said:
I have a page I must send in some day. It's a list I've been collecting of extraordinarily cruel behaviour by the U.S., Britain, Canada, Spain - and all of it committed by eminent citizens. Hitler was not an unusual figure in history.
Just think - The U.S. is not deliberately starving civilians, including babies, to death in Yemen. Millions are dying. That says something about us. Yes, Trump is part of it. But he follows in the steps of Bush and Obama.
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Do you have this one.....Madeline Albright 2001interview:

‘We Think the Price Is Worth It’
 
Graeme Decarie said:
I was slow in catching on. And I take no joy in the conclusion I came to. Christianity has never been able to overcome the weakness of our humanity. Today, fundamentalists are demonstrating against abortion at a local hospital. They do this even as we are complicit in the starvation and murder of babies by the million in order to boost profits for oil companies.
And the churches are utterly silent.
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And profoundly passive. Most being concerned in the main with preserving a funding base and maintaining charitable tax status.
 
Eco nomic concerns? No Maas 've concerns for the greater hosts of deficient peoples! Thus lessor states as thought falling behind desires ... and off thye go ... what's left of what should 've been right! But politically correct ... you can't say that either ... offends the greater powers ... Machiavelli! The valle of concern as depressed ...

Thus that'souda cite ... what you can bury in God hiding in word ... and the wee people would desire improvement in prescience ... fore sight alone?
 
Graeme Decarie said:
Yes, Trump is wacky and erratic. But the U.S. has been murdering people by the millions for a century, more if we include native peoples, Mexicans and, lest we forget, Canadians.By destroying their homes and homelands, it has plunged tens of millions into the dead end of refugeedom. It has been impoverishing its own people to make the wealthy even wealthier. It has been destroying public education to make profits for the wealthy who own private schools. It has largely denied its own people public health care, again to make profits for the wealthy. (They would have slapped a subpeona on Jesus for giving free medical care.) It has plunged the world into a severe risk of nuclear war. It is busily and deliberately starving millions to death.l
American governments for over a century have been as ruthless as any in the world's barbaric past.
On memorial day, speaking of America's military, Trump called them angels from God who were defending America (from countries that that didn't and can't attack it. Angels from God who 'defend' America by massacring the Maya of Guatemala, starving the children of Yemen, murdering civilians all over the world.
And very, very few criticize Trump for this. And nobody of power in the U.S. questions it.
The U.S., which claims to live by Christian values has, like all of its preceding empires, destroyed Christianity - while the Christian clergy sit their with their faces hanging out and even applauding.
No, Kimmio. It doesn't matter who gets elected. This murder and greed with Christian blessing has been going on since the Spanish and Portuguese empires, through the British, French and Italian, to this day in America.
No. It doesn't matter who gets elected. There is no connection between our world and the teaching of Jesus.
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I won't dispute your facts; I actually agree with them. But not your conclusions. I don't think I could live with all that negativity. I have to have hope and to trust that we can get through this and move on to a better life. Despite wars and rumours of war, there have been long periods of peace in many parts of the world. And a good many Christians (and others) are working for social justice, feeding the hungry, welcoming the stranger, offering hospitality, comfort, opportunity. Here in NB, my parents had elementary school, I finished high school, my kids went to university. When I was a kid my mother's illness kept our family in poverty even though the druggist gave her her medicine at cost and the doctor sometimes forgot to send his bills. Both my daughter and I have had chronic long-term illnesses that required long periods in hospital, medical and surgical care - covered by Medicare. Sure I worry about many of the things you mention, but I can see some good in the world too - even some good American people.
 
I have, so far, told almost nothing of the brutality that has been common all over the world - including New Brunswick. In this province, people are made poor to make the Irvings rich. The newspapers are the worst, lying, propagandizing rags I have ever seen. And the people of New Brunswick do nothing because they're too scared to have opinions. and too scared to discuss them. This province is dead in the water.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
I have, so far, told almost nothing of the brutality that has been common all over the world - including New Brunswick. In this province, people are made poor to make the Irvings rich. The newspapers are the worst, lying, propagandizing rags I have ever seen. And the people of New Brunswick do nothing because they're too scared to have opinions. and too scared to discuss them. This province is dead in the water.
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What? You've told nothing about NB and/or the Irvings?!!!!!
Hands up people who haven't heard Graeme mention the Irving family, NB newspapers, NB poverty, etc. in the last six months.

People in NB know these things Graeme. We read the local paper for the obits, yard sales, comics, social notices (80th birthday celebrations at the Legion Hall), and local news and sports (seniors' bowling scores, high school hockey). And we need the paper to train the puppy. We know about the Irvings. We know about poverty - we live it. We are still better off than we were a generation ago. We still educate our youth - there are two universities within walking distance of my home. Many of us choose to live here - despite the faults.
We also know a bit about the brutality around the world - we can read. And you tell us often enough.
 
Seeler said:
What? You've told nothing about NB and/or the Irvings?!!!!!
Hands up people who haven't heard Graeme mention the Irving family, NB newspapers, NB poverty, etc. in the last six months.

People in NB know these things Graeme. We read the local paper for the obits, yard sales, comics, social notices (80th birthday celebrations at the Legion Hall), and local news and sports (seniors' bowling scores, high school hockey). And we need the paper to train the puppy. We know about the Irvings. We know about poverty - we live it. We are still better off than we were a generation ago. We still educate our youth - there are two universities within walking distance of my home. Many of us choose to live here - despite the faults.
We also know a bit about the brutality around the world - we can read. And you tell us often enough.
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My hand's up. I haven't "heard" him on these things. I've only read his comments. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

The irony is that the vast majority of us on here probably agree with most of what he writes.
 
Ah, Seeler. You're right. I have written about NB and the Irvings here. I've done many, many times in my blog, The Decarie Report.
And, yes, New Brunswickers know at least some of how they have been ripped off. But they don't do anything about it. And they routinely vote for the two political parties that are owned by the Irvings. And, yes, they know the Irving papers lie. But they still buy them and read them.

If a majority here agree with most of what I write, this is a very silent majority. And if church leaders agree with what I say, they are mute. It is hard to imagine a world less Christian than the Christian west.
 
Hi Graham,

I concur.

Totalitarian trajectory is rooted in the ignorance and apathy of the majority.

George
 
revsdd said:
I agree as well. I'm not, however, convinced that those of us who regularly post here are among that ignorant and apathetic majority.all
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Nor am I. Some here are certainly not 'of' that majority. All of us are 'among' that majority. It takes courage to take a clear stance contrary to majority opinion. The notice of salt without savour.

George
 
Salt does sting though doesn't it? Like when one becomes wise to what's going on and the frustration of not really seeing much chance of seeing change ... in light of the situation that we could slide further in the hole and elect a parallel to Trump ... it happens!

Then the use of the sting is heavy ... if you consider the public problem with blood pressure... knocks of the lesser powers ...

Power always trumps lesser thinking ... and intellect is a going virtue ... out of here ...
 
It's very difficult for a society to overcome ignorance and apathy when it has no honest information to work with, and when it senses it has no input. We're nowhere close to honest information - and the forces of propaganda are powerful. We also, perhaps, have an inborn instinct for self-preservation. So we don't rock the boat.
Germany did not suddenly turn on evil in the 1930s, and turn it off in 1945. The British have never been accused of evil - but they have a record of being leaders among the mass murderers of history. And that is still going on today as they help to starve babies in Yemen.
Americans are not evil. But they happily slaughter millions all over the world. (Trump recently referred to American soldiers as "angels sent by God". ) Can anyone name me a clergyman who has disputed that?
I often see the words liberal and conservative used, almost always, by people who have not the faintest idea what they they men. Ditto for fascist and nazi and communist. (Russia and China were never communist.)
 
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