TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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Well, there are other elements to look at. (Not much to say about the debates because there's' been no substance to them.)
However, The U.S. has a very serious problem. All its government agencies have long since been corrupted, and are now controlled by the very wealthy. All the public news media are owned by the the very wealthy, a nd all purvey propaganda.
The American (and Canadian) churches are silent in the face of profound moral issues here. And Canada is a puppet of the U.S. as it once was to Britain.
And funny how most of our news media have not mentioned Canada's part in the bombing of Mosul.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
Well, there are other elements to look at. (Not much to say about the debates because there's' been no substance to them.)
However, The U.S. has a very serious problem. All its government agencies have long since been corrupted, and are now controlled by the very wealthy. All the public news media are owned by the the very wealthy, a nd all purvey propaganda.
The American (and Canadian) churches are silent in the face of profound moral issues here. And Canada is a puppet of the U.S. as it once was to Britain.
And funny how most of our news media have not mentioned Canada's part in the bombing of Mosul.
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Graeme, do you think that American and Canadian churches should be speaking out on political issues? If so, why? Personally, I believe that the role of churches is to proclaim the Kingdom of God.
 
Heck, proclaim it once, and it's done. That's it. There's a kingdom of God. Whoopee. Got the message.
But if that's your idea of the faith, it's not the only thing that Jesus and The Bible mention. There's a certain amount of chatter about loving one's neighbour, about not killing, about not being greedy, etc.
Fundamentalists wil speak on political issues - like abortion, like the transgendered. And I have no objection to that. If you believe in the tenets of your faith, you should be making them public issues. The mass murder and greed of war should certainly be concerns for Christians to speak about. They should have no right to force people to agree with them. But they should most certainly spread the whole Gospel - not just the convenient parts of it.
You don't think that the kingdom of God is a political issue? What do you think it is we're watchinig in the middle east?
 
I'm starting to think that Trump may be actually doing the world a favour, in an odd and perverse kind of a way. He is relatively honest and transparent, though his moral integrity is definitely at question. But he represent a large proportion of the US, and this is my point. It's not Trump himself who bothers us so much, it's the fact that he speaks for a mindset of Americans (and Canadians apparently). I read somewhere that some 30% of Americans would vote for him regardless of his indiscretions*. And this because they have nothing left to lose. The system has let them down and they now have a voice. So in some ways Trump is a conduit for the exposure of the underbelly of the America.

* Trump himself once boasted that he could "stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody" and not lose voters.

The irony of it all of course is that Trump himself is part of the problem that his followers are so much against. And that problem being that of the Wall Street Corporations and the "one percent" who control and have little regard for the "little people". Trump has awoken an extreme movement in America, a moment of anarchists who are willing to tear the whole s**t house down because they've been suffering in poverty and a system of no representation for too long. Trump therefore is a conduit for the exposure of this underbelly of America. And this is what really appalls us when he spouts his racists and sexist propaganda. For every three people who are shocked by his statements, there is one who is no more in "silent" agreement with him.

Maybe this is doing us a favour in the long run, by bringing it all out into the open and into the light of day. The world has to change. And only when we unite as one will we ever live in peace, as separation, the "us vs them mentality, always brings discord. Maybe this exposure of hate and separation in our world will force us to realize the right path. "Brotherhood", as described by Jesus, is not just about a Brotherhood of Christians, it's about a Brotherhood of Man, regardless of race or religion. We are on the threshold of a new world, a world of communication, intelligent love and moral compassion. It can be done, we just need a wake up call.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
Heck, proclaim it once, and it's done. That's it. There's a kingdom of God. Whoopee. Got the message.
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:D

Graeme Decarie said:
But if that's your idea of the faith, it's not the only thing that Jesus and The Bible mention. There's a certain amount of chatter about loving one's neighbour, about not killing, about not being greedy, etc.
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I consider all of that to be proclaiming the Kingdom of God - which is here now but not yet in its fullness.

Graeme Decarie said:
Fundamentalists wil speak on political issues - like abortion, like the transgendered. And I have no objection to that. If you believe in the tenets of your faith, you should be making them public issues. The mass murder and greed of war should certainly be concerns for Christians to speak about. They should have no right to force people to agree with them. But they should most certainly spread the whole Gospel - not just the convenient parts of it.
You don't think that the kingdom of God is a political issue? What do you think it is we're watchinig in the middle east?
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What I'm watching for around the world is God bringing about his plan of lovingly redeeming all of Creation unto himself.
 
Jae said:
Graeme, do you think that American and Canadian churches should be speaking out on political issues? If so, why? Personally, I believe that the role of churches is to proclaim the Kingdom of God.
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If I may speak to this Jae... everything is spiritual in nature. Including politics, economics and our role in keeping the environment clean. These are issues about human relationship, whether with each other or with the Planet. And "this" is how we express the Kingdom of God you speak of, by attempting to perfect ourselves on every level, physical, emotional and mental. Churches should speak up on all issues where there is injustice or cruelty, as there should be no real separation between Church and State.
 
Jae said:
Are you actually in favor of a theocracy?
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No, because that never works either. I'm in favour of a system of spiritually minded, yet intelligent and compassionate leaders who are not biased towards one belief system or another, but rather respective of them all. The welfare of all people need to be met, regardless of race or creed: this concept is spiritual in nature.
 
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Why even raise the question of theocracy? Nobody has mentioned it. A theocracy would be rule by the church. Nobody has suggested that. But Christian churches should help their members to understand Christian princples as they relate to the real world. We long ago did that by making murder a crime. Nobody accuses us of being a thecracy for that.
The problem with the churches is that they ignore Christian principles in issues like war, social services,......
 
Did you know destiny is a wyrd item, or icon of things to come like cogito ergo sum ... and thus it goes ... therefore it isn't!

It is a benefit to know some alien tongues ... and you can identify where some crazy IDe's come from ... pure passion and noch Luce ... thus the genre of the past ... Le wis Carole!
 
chansen said:
Russians would vote Trump, eh? I know that Trump would win if only men were allowed to vote. I wonder if Trump would also win if only Christians were allowed to vote?
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Only Christians? It's hard to say. I cann't think of any of the Christians that I know that I think would vote for Trump.
Hee is the anthesis of everything that I believe in, and that I hink most of the people in my congregation and community believe in.
We are 'love you neighbour', 'welcome the stranger andd the alien', practice hospitality - not anti-immigrants
We are pro-choice and pro-life. - we are not anti-abortion, although we think it is a serious and difficult choice for a woman to make
We follow a man who said 'feed the hungry, visit the sick, clothe the naked, give shelter, welcome ...' - we believe every person should have the right to proper food, adequate housing, medical care, education, clean water - and many of us see caring for those who cannot care forthemselves as our responsibility through government andd taxation.
We believe in and respect womeen and men as equals.
We affirm diversity, including members of the LGBT...
We believe in justice for all (not retribution)

Of course these are goals. We sometimes fall short of achieving; but I caan't see us voting for a man who believes the exsaact opposite.
 
Seeler said:
Only Christians? It's hard to say. I cann't think of any of the Christians that I know that I think would vote for Trump.

{snip}

Of course these are goals. We sometimes fall short of achieving; but I caan't see us voting for a man who believes the exsaact opposite.
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Found a CNN poll that had Trump and Clinton in a statistical tie among Christians back in July. Trump was up 2%, which is within the error bars.
 
The majority of Christians I know, both in real life and online, are supporting Clinton. I do have a friend from University who's supporting Trump. I also know a good number of Christians who are wise enough not to voice support for either candidate.
 
A majority of Christians in Germany supprted Hitler, and they supported the holocaust.
A majority of Christians supported the crusades to steal arab land.
A majority of Christians in the U.S. supported the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
A majority of Christians supported the illegal war and mass killing of the Iraq invasion.
A majority of Christians support the wars that have created some thirty million refugees.
A majority of British Christians supported the killing and looting of 1/5 of the world that we called the British Empire.
A majority of Christian Canadians supported the destruction of native peoples.
I know of no evidence in all of history that Christians have ever supported Christian principles in these matters.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
A majority of Christians in Germany supprted Hitler, and they supported the holocaust.
A majority of Christians supported the crusades to steal arab land.
A majority of Christians in the U.S. supported the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
A majority of Christians supported the illegal war and mass killing of the Iraq invasion.
A majority of Christians support the wars that have created some thirty million refugees.
A majority of British Christians supported the killing and looting of 1/5 of the world that we called the British Empire.
A majority of Christian Canadians supported the destruction of native peoples.
I know of no evidence in all of history that Christians have ever supported Christian principles in these matters.
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Probably because not enough preachers are speaking out to their congregations about not supporting any war or if they do, people are choosing patriotism over Christianity or over rationalizing the message of Jesus to include barbarism.

Watch how many will be there for remembrance day, rather than protest they will feel they are dishonouring the war veterans if they speak out against what they thought they were fighting for (and still do). I personally think there is more honour in preventing other people from becoming war veterans and speaking out against current wars on remembrance day.
 
That's the topic for my Nov. 11 blog. If you check the promises we made for why we asked Canadians to fight in World War 2, you'll find we have betrayed every one one them.
 
http://www.pewforum.org/2016/07/13/evangelicals-rally-to-trump-religious-nones-back-clinton/

In this poll from July, the "religiously unaffiliated", which includes but is not limited to atheists, plan to vote for Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump, by a ratio of 3-to-1. That is not close to a statistical tie.

White evangelical protestants support Trump 4-to-1.

If you think that people who support Clinton are more Christ-like than people who support Trump, then the non-religious are more Christ-like than the bulk of Christians.

Your faith does not make for better people. In many cases, it makes for worse people. Graeme will lose it because Hillary is just as bad or worse in some ways, but let's discount Graeme for now. If you think Trump is too terrible of a person to vote for, you agree with half of your fellow Christians, and most of the non-religious.

So if you think that Trump's support among Christians is because "people are choosing patriotism over Christianity or over rationalizing the message of Jesus to include barbarism," then you have to figure out how the non-religious aren't doing that. Then you have to ask yourself if Christianity really is the force for good you think it is, instead of what I think it is, which is a mixed bag that we too often have to drag, kicking and screaming, to modern moral conclusions.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
That's the topic for my Nov. 11 blog. If you check the promises we made for why we asked Canadians to fight in World War 2, you'll find we have betrayed every one one them.
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It's good you will write that in a blog, but HOW DOES ONE SAY THAT, to someone who has served and sacrificed, without offending them? Then there are of course the descendents who are oh so proud of grandpas service in the war. You will be accused of dishonouring their lives.
 
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