Transit system violence

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jimkenney12

jimkenney12

Well-Known Member
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Many of the measures used by cities to respond to violence are like providing a nebulizer for people with bacterial pneumonia when a good antibiotic is what is needed.

The federal government, if it is sincerely committed to reducing energy consumption and pollution related to transportation, needs to offer substantial funding for respectful accommodation for people who need safe shelter. If the people who are responsible for a significant part of the violence had a safe place to live and had access to the supports they need, they would not be on the transit system. Regular users are abandoning public transit to avoid harassment and assaults.
 
Got a specific story or report to which you are responding? I mean, harassment and assaults on transit have been going on for probably as long as there has been transit. Are they getting worse in either severity or, more relevant to your ideas, frequency? I do agree that getting these people into proper shelters rather than having them in subway stations, bus shelters, etc. would be a net benefit to both transit users and them, just wondering why it's a concern now.
 
My cousin in Edmonton is very angry about a council decision last year to let homeless people use the bus and train stations 24/7. Transit users need to wait for busses and trains outside. I heard similar concerns in Calgary. The worsening homelessness situation pushes more people with social issues into the public transit systems. The fat cats like John Torey never use public transit so they do not care.
 
Mendalla said:
Got a specific story or report to which you are responding? I mean, harassment and assaults on transit have been going on for probably as long as there has been transit. Are they getting worse in either severity or, more relevant to your ideas, frequency? I do agree that getting these people into proper shelters rather than having them in subway stations, bus shelters, etc. would be a net benefit to both transit users and them, just wondering why it's a concern now.
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With the pandemic things got bad both in Calgary and Edmonton. Transit stations became drug consumption sites because of cameras, if people OD it's seen. People using these places as a loose form of harm reduction then lead it to be the places where people congregate with friends to use drugs, where the dealers come, etc. The shelter is a bit of an add on to the issue.
It sounds like similar things have happened elsewhere. I knw the TCC has tried doing some similar things as ETS.

Here's something that was happening that lead to backlash so policy changed.

Controversy erupts after Edmonton workers stop handing out syringes, pipes near transit

In an attempt to reduce open drug use in public places, city harm-reduction contractors are no longer giving syringes and pipes to people in pedways or near transit centres – a change attracting mixed reaction.
beta.ctvnews.ca beta.ctvnews.ca
 
On this past Saturday night, about 9pm, tragically a 16 yr old male was stabbed 3 times in the chest & died while waiting for a subway train. Apparently unprovoked random attack. Person has been arrested. There is certainly growing anxiety about using transit in Toronto. One of the recent things that has occurred here is that 'ticket booth staff' have been removed from many transit stations in favour of automation. This means no actual human eyes on duty re people coming in or out of the stations - people who might alert police or transit security to concerning individuals. There is a lot of work going on. And for sure - systemic issues underlie a lot of this. Even our public libraries have hired security & social workers as increasing numbers of people in need are taking refuge there. It's very sad.
 
We are also hearing about increased shoplifting as more and more stores go to self checkout.
 
I believe the violence is coming from desperation. What’s needed is more affordable housing, and (enough) safe supply (of drugs), as well as treatment programs and better funded, client centred, humane, social services. If addicts don’t have enough safe supply they take risks on dirty street drugs to get through the day, and they get desperate. They steal to pay for their addiction.

I remember taking a workshop at First United years ago, and the instructor had a lost a son to the streets. This was long before the level of crisis today. She said that on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, even before shelter, at the base level, is addiction. I suspect that holds true. I think it’s unrealistic to expect people to get clean before moving into housing. Adequate safe supply means they aren’t at risk of acting out of desperation - or, at a much reduced risk.
 
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Kimmio Laughterlove said:
I believe the violence is coming from desperation. What’s needed is more affordable housing, and (enough) safe supply (of drugs), as well as treatment programs and better funded, client centred, humane, social services. If addicts don’t have enough safe supply they take risks on dirty street drugs to get through the day, and they get desperate. They steal to pay for their addiction.

I remember taking a workshop at First United years ago, and the instructor had a lost a son to the streets. This was long before the level of crisis today. She said that on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, even before shelter, at the base level, is addiction. I suspect that holds true. I think it’s unrealistic to expect people to get clean before moving into housing. Adequate safe supply means they aren’t at risk of acting out of desperation - or, at a much reduced risk.
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Safe supply, plus safe place to use. The province shut down some of the options.
Unfortunately cities are struggling with the problem, but the solutions are not at city levels.
 
I guess when more energy than normal is added to a system
Since energy has to balance -- can not be created or destroyed -- it has to go somewhere
 
I do see evidence of more mental health struggle but I’m I’m not so sure violent crime is way up or it’s just being way hyped to justify increasing police budgets at a time when there have been calls to defund the police (which actually really means divert more resources from the pool into better housing, health and social services - right now the NIMBY’s on the west side are fighting hard to not allow some supportive housing developments in their neighbourhoods and it’s much easier to then justify throwing more police at the problems). The municipal forces seem to be commissioning their own studies and then really pushing the fear campaigning - acting as independent entities that don’t have to answer to the public. Here they were caught putting out erroneous stats and if I recall correctly Edmonton used the same private company to put together a study.

Also the opioid crisis isn’t as much an addiction crisis - there is and always has often been addiction accompanying mental health, including to alcohol which is legal to purchase - as it is a safe supply crisis. Governments at all levels are having a hard time acknowledging that - and then, again, it becomes an excuse to throw more police at the problem at the exclusion of other needed solutions.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
I do see evidence of more mental health struggle but I’m I’m not so sure violent crime is way up or it’s just being way hyped to justify increasing police budgets at a time when there have been calls to defund the police (which actually really means divert more resources from the pool into better housing, health and social services - right now the NIMBY’s on the west side are fighting hard to not allow some supportive housing developments in their neighbourhoods and it’s much easier to then justify throwing more police at the problems). The municipal forces seem to be commissioning their own studies and then really pushing the fear campaigning - acting as independent entities that don’t have to answer to the public. Here they were caught putting out erroneous stats and if I recall correctly Edmonton used the same private company to put together a study.
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Considering concerns by council who often disagree with EPS, I am not doubtful of the change. There's been a change and not for the better.
 
There are a few things I find really messed up in my city right now. They are expanding allowing open alcohol in more parks and on beaches. Meanwhile turning their backs on the DTES displacements. It’s like one set of rules for the well off and another for those who are poor. They want to sweep the streets of any appearance of poverty and dysfunction that exists as a result of failed policies that support greed and then - “hey let’s let the ‘good’ people drink on the beach” - I’m sorry but I can see that going badly too. More drunk brawls breaking out in transit, even among ‘respectable’ people because it’s cheaper to byob than to spend money at a pub, and everybody is stressed out and divided. Even though people always brought their own mugs and cozies and drank in public anyway. This just sends a message that one kind of people is good and another is bad.
 
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Kimmio Laughterlove said:
But I’m not so sure the cops aren’t part of the problem. Just saying.
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Yeah, the police have certainly done some sketchy things lately.

I haven't been to an of the public parks that allow drinking. There are limits with that. I certainly do understand concerns but the pilot seemed to go well based on feedback. The private beach here has drinking events and I haven't seen those get out of hand. The city in general is opening up public spaces for more activities - gardening, skating, dog parks.
 
i wonder if the skytrain stormtroopers still tase fare evaders?

that is what i have heard bus drivers call skycops lol

and there have been a recent spate of bizarre transit violences lately

that poor kid who got murdered on that bus it turns out the murderer is along with that charge being charged with terrorism and being linked to "terrorist group". weird.
 
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