Transgenderism ..... ask your questions!

[Jaebius]

...A lot of English teachers and editors will still slap you on the wrist for using They as a third person singular neuter.

Really? It's encouraged at my seminary.

 

[Mendalla]

Really? It's encouraged at my seminary.

Good to hear. I've seen otherwise elsewhere. I imagine it's the remnants of the generation before us and maybe it's fading faster than I thought.

 

[Luce NDs]

Really? It's encouraged at my seminary.

Thus the neutered state?

Neutered thoughts and thinkers are silent ... a real danger compared to those that out-it!

Thus the beyond-conceptions in those seized of frightening thoughts ...

So they don't and intelligence is confused with emotions and opinions ...

 

[Pinga]

Rita. I had the pleasure of re meeting a coworker who is now publicly sharing transition

So glad corporate is being supportive.
She now has her new-to-us name in email

 

[Jaebius]

13-year-old girl who was supported by her Christian parents in living as a transgender boy commits suicide | Christian News on Christian Today

 

[revjohn]

13-year-old girl who was supported by her Christian parents in living as a transgender boy commits suicide | Christian News on Christian Today

Thanks for sharing the article.

Sadly, the tragedy of a 13 year old committing suicide points out some of the complexity. Thankfully, we don't have to deal with the spectre of Fundamentalist Chirstian parents piling on burdens they have no intention of carrying and pushing a troubled youth further and further to a precipice. Without that distraction we can take a look at some of the wider context and try to gain some understanding of the systemic difficulty at play and how that breaks bruised reeds or snuffs out smoldering wicks.

One of the takeaways based on the interviews is this:

"He didn't feel validated or accepted in our community,'' Erin said. "You really need a safe space of allies and advocates and people that are like you. That's where they hear their true voices. There are no local community safe spaces that I know of, and we've looked. That was part of Jay's struggle."

Not a lot of support found in the article either eh?

Did you notice how the parents refer to the 13 year old as him? That is the kind of support that is needed. Did you notice how the article never once referred to the 13 year old as a boy? That is the kind of systematic grinding that wears bodies and minds down.

She added: "As Jay was going through this journey, he would go to church with us. The church was welcoming, but there was no safe space and that is my biggest point. Me and Jay would go to different churches to find places that were safe for us. I say us because I often feel like an outsider because I just love everybody, and that's kind of hard in a Christian Bible Belt state."

How is it that individuals would feel like outsiders at a Christian Church just because they love everybody? Shouldn't that be something that we expect from Christians in general?

Here is something else I found interesting

The American College of Pediatricians, a national organization of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals dedicated to the health and well-being of children, warned last year that conditioning children to accept transgenderism as normal is child abuse as it is classified as a mental illness.

People reading that will be excused for thinking that The American College of Pediatricians is a national body responsible for regulating all pediatricians in the United States of America. I expect that is what you are intended to think. The truth of the matter is that the American College of Pediatrics is a breakaway organization formed specifically to protest the American Academy of Pediatrics because that professional body supported allowing Gay and Lesbian couples to adopt children.

Why would a reporter turn to a social advocacy group rather than a professional group for background on the issue? And why when we are dealing with Suicide, which is a mental health issue would we turn to pediatricians instead of psychiatrists? Possibly it could be because we are ignorant about where we ought to be looking for help or, it could be because we want a resource that confirms our biases.

For the record, neither the American Academy of Pediatrics nor the American Psychiatric Association classify transgenderism as child abuse. Nor do they discuss transgenderism as an issue in and of itself. Transgenderism is covered under the term Gender Dysphoria which is not given a moral value.

It is important to note that membership of the American College of Pediatricians is estimated to be 500 members whereas the American Academy of Pediatrics has a membership of 64, 000 members and the American Psychiatric Association has a membership of 36, 000. Which is not me saying that the majority is always right. It is also important to note that the American College of Pediatrics regularly and routinely faces criticism for mischaracterizing and misusing research. So, if the numbers of members isn't enough to convince you that your source might not be the most reliable, the number of complaints made by actual researchers should.

Unless you really do not care and just want to push an agenda.

Which is really what the article by the Christian Post does and that is part of the system in place to grind individuals down. So even though the story of a teen suicide finally has a Christian Family demonstrating compassion and love for their child, rather than what we have come to expect, we see that more is actually needed and what the article, unwittingly demonstrates, is that that support can not be found by the editors or journalists of the Christian Post or the American College of Pediatricians.

What is the most heartbraking is that the article appears to revel in the suicide of a 13 year old. It is exactly the tone one would expect from somebody saying, "I hate to say I told you so" when they are really enjoying having the opportunity to say, "I hate to say I told you so."

No room for Christian compassion in the Christian journalism practiced by the Christian post. A 13 year old child is dead and they waste no tears while immediately leaping up and pointing fingers at who is really to blame. Which is, parents who loved their child and supported him in a very difficult decision.

It is great that the article points out that Jay (they refer to him by his birth name of Jane because this is the most respectful way for outsiders to treat a family's grief) as having a history of depression and anxiety issues. Anyone who even bothered to take a moment to look up Gender Dysphoria in DSM 5 would know that is typically an accompanying symptom for which treatment is sought and not a consequence of determining gender. He is not feeling guilt about knowing He should really be a she.

At the end of the story is a 13 year old child is dead who, in their right f***ing mind could possibly believe that is a good thing and not reach out to the parents to support them rather than exploit their misery as some kind of ideological trophy.

It makes a great addition to the thread because it demonstrates, for those with eyes to read and a brain to comprehend that some Christians really and truly prefer dead children to transitioned adults.

Are you one of them or are you just one of the ignorant souls who uncritically swallows what another Christian offers up?

 

[Seeler]

Great analysis of the article revjohn. I picked up many of the same points, especially in the way the parents used his name and the pronoun 'he' 'him', as opposed to the writer using his birth name and refering to him as 'she'.
I didn't know about the American College of Pediatrics - thanks for enlighening me.

 

[Luce NDs]

Is genre like that and with a slip of the pen a wisdom in the story can be converted ... blame it on the Word ... God!

The partisan politic will make it law ... thus transfixed! More of the same broken peoples ... that's eM sometimes "W" in reciprocation AL modes ...

Just accept it or you'll be overwhelmed by the extent of IDe ... the aboriginal power of word ... sometimes referred to as a' priori ... people think after ... just follows with motives ... thus the expression anon ... something to be researched! It tends towards anonymity ... the unknown! Thus we don't ...

 

[Pinga]

,thanks you, Rev john.

Damn weasels who write such crap.

Thankyou jay for showing us once again how important affirmation is, and the vigilance required as allies

 

[Mrs.Anteater]

Thanks to you, John. I believe Jae ( or someone else) has quoted the American College of Pediatrics before and the same info was given in response.
Posting this kind of crap here in this thread should be embarrassing to Jae, who should know better.

 

[Mendalla]

He knows full well, @Mrs.Anteater . Testing the waters and being provocative are part of his usual MO.

 

[Mrs.Anteater]

He knows full well, @Mrs.Anteater . Testing the waters and being provocative are part of his usual MO.

I know, @Mendella, I was appealing at his " better half" ( with which I am not talking about his wife)

 

[Luce NDs]

,thanks you, Rev john.

Damn weasels who write such crap.

Thankyou jay for showing us once again how important affirmation is, and the vigilance required as allies

Can a weasel get blanched in the cooler season?

Maybe that was another version of Be a'trice in the Danton versing ...

 

[Jaebius]

He knows full well, @Mrs.Anteater . Testing the waters and being provocative are part of his usual MO.

It isn't, and I find it both sad how I can't even offer up an interesting article without people taking unnecessary swipes at me.

 

[Jaebius]

Posting this kind of crap here in this thread should be embarrassing to Jae, who should know better.

I posted it because I found it both interesting and relevant to the topic being discussed. If you don't Mrs. A., move along. You're not required to read it. There's no test on it later.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Jae, you've been called on the American College of Pediatrics before. If you've forgotten that point, please consider this your reminder. Check the credibility of your frigging sources. Thank you.

 

[Jaebius]

Thanks for sharing the article.

You're welcome.

Sadly, the tragedy of a 13 year old committing suicide points out some of the complexity. Thankfully, we don't have to deal with the spectre of Fundamentalist Chirstian parents piling on burdens they have no intention of carrying and pushing a troubled youth further and further to a precipice.

Agreed that it's tragic.

One of the things that I found interesting about the article was - how many times have we heard from @RitaTG and others that trans people have suicided because they haven't been accepted by their families. Yet, in this case, we have someone who absolutely was accepted by their parents and yet did a suicide.

Without that distraction we can take a look at some of the wider context and try to gain some understanding of the systemic difficulty at play and how that breaks bruised reeds or snuffs out smoldering wicks.

One of the takeaways based on the interviews is this:

Not a lot of support found in the article either eh?

Did you notice how the parents refer to the 13 year old as him?

I did.

That is the kind of support that is needed. Did you notice how the article never once referred to the 13 year old as a boy?

I noticed that it very frequently referred to the child as a girl (she, etc.). I did not notice that it never one referred to the child as a boy.

That is the kind of systematic grinding that wears bodies and minds down.

How is it that individuals would feel like outsiders at a Christian Church just because they love everybody? Shouldn't that be something that we expect from Christians in general?

My feeling is that what the mother was saying is that churches didn't want her to love and accept her child for being the person the child claimed to be. Rather, they wanted her to play a part in helping her child to accept who they felt the child actually was.

Here is something else I found interesting

People reading that will be excused for thinking that The American College of Pediatricians is a national body responsible for regulating all pediatricians in the United States of America. I expect that is what you are intended to think. The truth of the matter is that the American College of Pediatrics is a breakaway organization formed specifically to protest the American Academy of Pediatrics because that professional body supported allowing Gay and Lesbian couples to adopt children.

Why would a reporter turn to a social advocacy group rather than a professional group for background on the issue? And why when we are dealing with Suicide, which is a mental health issue would we turn to pediatricians instead of psychiatrists? Possibly it could be because we are ignorant about where we ought to be looking for help or, it could be because we want a resource that confirms our biases.

For the record, neither the American Academy of Pediatrics nor the American Psychiatric Association classify transgenderism as child abuse. Nor do they discuss transgenderism as an issue in and of itself. Transgenderism is covered under the term Gender Dysphoria which is not given a moral value.

I can recall the ACP and the AAP being discussed before on WC and/or WC2, so I was cognizant of the difference when I read the article. I did find this interesting in the article, "Gender dysphoria, formerly listed as gender identity disorder, is a recognized mental disorder in the most recent edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association." I did not know that. I had thought it was no longer classified as a mental disorder.

It is important to note that membership of the American College of Pediatricians is estimated to be 500 members whereas the American Academy of Pediatrics has a membership of 64, 000 members and the American Psychiatric Association has a membership of 36, 000. Which is not me saying that the majority is always right...

It's like you're saying, 'Numbers don't prove the majority right, but here are the numbers anyway.'

...It is also important to note that the American College of Pediatrics regularly and routinely faces criticism for mischaracterizing and misusing research. So, if the numbers of members isn't enough to convince you that your source might not be the most reliable, the number of complaints made by actual researchers should.

Unless you really do not care and just want to push an agenda.

Which is really what the article by the Christian Post does and that is part of the system in place to grind individuals down. So even though the story of a teen suicide finally has a Christian Family demonstrating compassion and love for their child, rather than what we have come to expect, we see that more is actually needed and what the article, unwittingly demonstrates, is that that support can not be found by the editors or journalists of the Christian Post or the American College of Pediatricians.

Christian Post is tailoring its message to suit those who are its base of regular readers (of which I am not one. I saw the article because it was linked to from something else I do follow on Facebook).

What is the most heartbraking is that the article appears to revel in the suicide of a 13 year old. It is exactly the tone one would expect from somebody saying, "I hate to say I told you so" when they are really enjoying having the opportunity to say, "I hate to say I told you so."

I didn't pick up on any reveling going on over the suicide.

No room for Christian compassion in the Christian journalism practiced by the Christian post. A 13 year old child is dead and they waste no tears while immediately leaping up and pointing fingers at who is really to blame. Which is, parents who loved their child and supported him in a very difficult decision.

I didn't see Christian Post as blaming the parents.

It is great that the article points out that Jay (they refer to him by his birth name of Jane because this is the most respectful way for outsiders to treat a family's grief) as having a history of depression and anxiety issues. Anyone who even bothered to take a moment to look up Gender Dysphoria in DSM 5 would know that is typically an accompanying symptom for which treatment is sought and not a consequence of determining gender. He is not feeling guilt about knowing He should really be a she.

At the end of the story is a 13 year old child is dead who, in their right f***ing mind could possibly believe that is a good thing and not reach out to the parents to support them rather than exploit their misery as some kind of ideological trophy.

It makes a great addition to the thread because it demonstrates, for those with eyes to read and a brain to comprehend that some Christians really and truly prefer dead children to transitioned adults.

Here I think you're way over the top John. No one is saying that suicide is preferred.

 

[Jaebius]

Jae, you've been called on the American College of Pediatrics before. If you've forgotten that point, please consider this your reminder. Check the credibility of your frigging sources. Thank you.

What, "called on" Bette? I am not here advocating for the ACP. And what do you mean, "please consider this your reminder?"

 

[BetteTheRed]

Jae, you have, in other contexts, used this un-credible source. Please don't do so, if you wish to keep/increase your credibility. That clear enough for you?

 

[Jaebius]

Jae, you have, in other contexts, used this un-credible source. Please don't do so, if you wish to keep/increase your credibility. That clear enough for you?

I've used Christian Post before? Can't recall doing so. Perhaps you can link to where I have?

Oh, and as far as your warnings to me go Bette, I cannot recall you being elected to the Council.