Transgenderism ..... ask your questions!

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Pr. Jae said:
Right, I'm aware of the definition of the word advocate. However what I don't know is exactly what you mean by that. What shape would you see such advocacy take?

"Advocate: verb ˈadvəˌkāt 1.
  1. publicly recommend or support."
I wouldn't say I would publicly recommend or support anyone's use of any particular washroom.
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Then I shall make it clear as I can. Again ... using a church with multi stall facilities ... and we will even throw in one single stall washroom equipped for those with disabilities. You would be senior pastor or well up the chain of command.
Under those conditions would you stand up for me "Rita" and advocate with the staff and congregation for my being able to use the womens washroom?
This detailed question I feel is crystal clear and so very important to me.
Later ... after you answer....I will tell you why.
Thank you
 
RitaTG said:
Then I shall make it clear as I can. Again ... using a church with multi stall facilities ... and we will even throw in one single stall washroom equipped for those with disabilities. You would be senior pastor or well up the chain of command.
Under those conditions would you stand up for me "Rita" and advocate with the staff and congregation for my being able to use the womens washroom?
This detailed question I feel is crystal clear and so very important to me.
Later ... after you answer....I will tell you why.
Thank you
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I get the feeling RitaTG, that you believe in a hierarchical leadership structure in which the Senior Pastor would make all or most of the decisions. I understand your feeling that way, since it's the way churches operate in your denomination (and also in mine). However, I personally believe collaborative leadership is best. Hence, I would collaborate with my leadership team in making prudent decisions for the welfare and unity of the church. That said, my position is that all women ought to use the Women washroom, and all men use the Men washroom.
 
Pr. Jae said:
I get the feeling RitaTG, that you believe in a hierarchical leadership structure in which the Senior Pastor would make all or most of the decisions. I understand your feeling that way, since it's the way churches operate in your denomination (and also in mine). However, I personally believe collaborative leadership is best. Hence, I would collaborate with my leadership team in making prudent decisions for the welfare and unity of the church. That said, my position is that all women ought to use the Women washroom, and all men use the Men washroom.
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I am not letting you wiggle off so easily....
What about me? Which washroom do you say I should use?
 
RitaTG said:
I am not letting you wiggle off so easily....
What about me? Which washroom do you say I should use?
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Is that something for me to say? Use that which you feel is the appropriate washroom. You're an adult. You know your gender. This isn't rocket science.
 
Are things all obvious ... or some things incarnate ?

Incarnate: appearing as isn't!

There are those that believe not in things they cannot comprehend ... thus enigma ... mystery? Don't Tell Me How The Story Ends ... it'll go on when you deal with stoned asses ... they'd rather hate than a moderate passion ... calm passion? Kinda from the medium ...

Intimacies in communities require stoning --- the Bible! Perhaps we have to be crazy to listen to norms, moral forms?
 
Pr. Jae said:
Is that something for me to say? Use that which you feel is the appropriate washroom. You're an adult. You know your gender. This isn't rocket science.
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One last try......
So ...in that church that I have described with you on the pastoral staff.
You know me now ..... I say that in my heart and soul I am a woman ... I identify as a woman .... so I should use the womens washroom like I do everywhere else?
If someone said something .... would you support my choice?
 
RitaTG said:
One last try......
So ...in that church that I have described with you on the pastoral staff.
You know me now ..... I say that in my heart and soul I am a woman ... I identify as a woman .... so I should use the womens washroom like I do everywhere else?
If someone said something .... would you support my choice?
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As I've already said RitaTG - everyone should use the washroom they deem to be appropriate. Of course, the social climate being what it is, protocols should be set as to what the church should do if someone complains that someone else is in the wrong washroom. As Senior Pastor, I'd lead my team in collaboratively setting said protocols, and I would myself then abide by them.
 
Pr. Jae said:
As I've already said RitaTG - everyone should use the washroom they deem to be appropriate. Of course, the social climate being what it is, protocols should be set as to what the church should do if someone complains that someone else is in the wrong washroom. As Senior Pastor, I'd lead my team in collaboratively setting said protocols, and I would myself then abide by them.
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I suppose that is as close to an answer as you are going to get.
Thank you for trying but you still have a long ways to go.
My sincere hope is that you never have a transgender person under the care of your ministry.
The response so far is not enough for someone like me who wants to attend and needs support and assurance regarding washrooms and of course other issues. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Please ... I urge you to do this ..... should you discover a transgender person in your church please advise them that they should go elsewhere where they can be who they are without worrying about issues such as this.
 
We have one transgender person at the church I attend. Washrooms are a non-issue. We currently have 2 single toilet washrooms, one with a change table. Either can be used by whomever needs to go.
 
Our's copies that mode ... kind a' like a putsch ... knockoff without thought ... is that stupid or just autonomous as a heart beaten ...

A' broke one? People seem to like to do that to feel upper ... crusty and St OIc ... stoic instead of stoked ... oak'd? Dead men are guan right ... no hauntings in the night? That dark KISS .. incubus ... countered by succubus ... and into it you falls ... de pits of the greater shadow ...

So much lost in transmutation ... trans late Shin of that dark glow ... like rye bread well knead dead ... and down they goes 'đ ... aesthetic ethers, or esters ... ole fins ... oily deeps ... de Grecian of earth will cause ruagh slippage ... thus off we goes ... all that remains is a feint able thought! Thin domain?

Some find feint stuff hard to gather ... like arse nick and black Lucy ... that spidery bite causing neurotoxin and altered thoughts ... god is like that in love of power of the oter kind from hate as N'S ... Nous vas co'terre ... just skims the Zea ...
 
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Tabitha said:
We have one transgender person at the church I attend. Washrooms are a non-issue. We currently have 2 single toilet washrooms, one with a change table. Either can be used by whomever needs to go.
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Hypothetically @Tabitha ...... what would happen if you had multi stall segregated washrooms?
Your thoughts please?
This is a very important question.
Yesterday I drove 3 trans kids to Rainbow Camp. That is the LGBTQ summer camp program located near Thessalon Ontario.
They were having all the usual discussions during the trip and they had a very long in depth discussion regarding washroom experiences and challenges. I just listened and let them talk as I wanted to hear their unfiltered thoughts.
This is a very real issue and a cause of a lot of stress for them.
They even asked me about what the arrangements were to be at camp.
Fortunately there the washrooms which are multi stall are all designated for all genders.
Please .... general comment .... please never ever let us underestimate the barrier that washrooms are.
 
This is a problem that I had not thought about. We currently have two multi-stall segregated washrooms. What is our best first step to inclusion? I was thinking a single ungendered washroom. Would it be good/better to have a sign above "Women" that says "Suggested for" and the same above "Men"? Or, "Women/All Genders" and "Men/All Genders"?
 
BetteTheRed said:
This is a problem that I had not thought about. We currently have two multi-stall segregated washrooms. What is our best first step to inclusion? I was thinking a single ungendered washroom. Would it be good/better to have a sign above "Women" that says "Suggested for" and the same above "Men"? Or, "Women/All Genders" and "Men/All Genders"?
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The washrooms at my church sport signs which simply say, "Washroom." (One also has an accessibility sign).
 
@BetteTheRed ...........
Just put up a sign at each washroom that clearly says that a person is welcome to use the washroom of the gender that they feel is most appropriate for themselves.
Also offer the single stall washroom as an option but please make sure that it is clear that this facility is simply an option and that the person is not required or expected to use it.
Thank you so very much for asking! :)
 
Pr. Jae said:
The washrooms at my church sport signs which simply say, "Washroom." (One also has an accessibility sign).
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Jae .... we have discussed this and you always duck and dodge the question when it gets deeper.
Your statement means nothing to those searching for acceptance.
I sincere hope is that a person that happens to be transgender never has to sit in a church such as yours.
 
We have multi-stall washrooms labelled the tradtional "Male" and "Female" (unless that's been changed, haven't gone in a while) at the back of our sanctuary and then a couple non-gendered two-piece washrooms in other parts of the building. Given the nature of our congregation, I doubt anyone would bat an eye, let alone object, if a trans person used the washroom of their choice but I agree that it would be nice to make the signage actually reflect that welcoming attitude. Something to bring up with the board.

I suspect that a lot of "welcoming" churches get a eye-opening when someone trans actually visits or joins. We ended up making some changes to our accessibility after having an interim minister for a year who used a scooter and worked in community ministry for the disabled in her regular ministry so I suspect we'd perhaps notice things like washroom signage more if we had input from a trans visitor or member.
 
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