The women divide the plunder ?

[blackbelt1961]

In my mind, "Junia" was just something slapped onto the text by liberal scholars.

I guess your right about it being in your mind

 

[Northwind]

Jae is trolling again ... step away, step away ... it will be ever thus ...

For clarification - I deleted my reaction that triggered this.

Carry on.

 

[Jaebius]

Early along the way I heard Jesus speak about searching the scripture. He encouraged it. Why? Those who wrestle with scripture, as Jacob wrestled with the angel, will be blessed by the revelation of the living Christ.

Those who take the Bible to be the living word of God are idolaters.

Who I worship is the living Christ who comes to people including me through the Bible.

 

[Ritafee]

Who I worship is the living Christ who comes to people including me through the Bible.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ.

 

[Jaebius]

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ.

Yes, that's a great verse.

 

[DaisyJane]

Of course not. The point (made by bb) is still a good one, in my view.

Indeed. At that time in history it would be unthinkable for anyone BUT a Jew to be part of Jesus' immediate circle. Similarly at that time in history it would be equally radical for women to be part of Jesus' immediate circle (which is why it is so fascinating that there are hints that women were, in fact, in positions of leadership). We understand the role of context for the former, why not the latter? Because in a patriarchal culture it suits (some) men as a justification for ensuring that all key positions of authority remain controlled by men.

Along that vein, most NT scholars I know argue that Jesus, for his time, was radically inclusive of women. We have Biblical narratives that tell us that. We have archaeological evidence that suggest women wrote Gospels, and had positions of leadership. That shifted when the early Christian community because integrated into the mainstream, patriarchal culture. As Christianity become more accepted it adopted the norms of the dominant culture - which were patriarchal.

 

[blackbelt1961]

Indeed. At that time in history it would be unthinkable for anyone BUT a Jew to be part of Jesus' immediate circle. Similarly at that time in history it would be equally radical for women to be part of Jesus' immediate circle (which is why it is so fascinating that there are hints that women were, in fact, in positions of leadership). We understand the role of context for the former, why not the latter? Because in a patriarchal culture it suits (some) men as a justification for ensuring that all key positions of authority remain controlled by men.

Along that vein, most NT scholars I know argue that Jesus, for his time, was radically inclusive of women. We have Biblical narratives that tell us that. We have archaeological evidence that suggest women wrote Gospels, and had positions of leadership. That shifted when the early Christian community because integrated into the mainstream, patriarchal culture. As Christianity become more accepted it adopted the norms of the dominant culture - which were patriarchal.

Clearly one can see this mostly in the RC church

 

[Jaebius]

Indeed. At that time in history it would be unthinkable for anyone BUT a Jew to be part of Jesus' immediate circle. Similarly at that time in history it would be equally radical for women to be part of Jesus' immediate circle (which is why it is so fascinating that there are hints that women were, in fact, in positions of leadership). We understand the role of context for the former, why not the latter? Because in a patriarchal culture it suits (some) men as a justification for ensuring that all key positions of authority remain controlled by men.

Along that vein, most NT scholars I know argue that Jesus, for his time, was radically inclusive of women. We have Biblical narratives that tell us that. We have archaeological evidence that suggest women wrote Gospels, and had positions of leadership. That shifted when the early Christian community because integrated into the mainstream, patriarchal culture. As Christianity become more accepted it adopted the norms of the dominant culture - which were patriarchal.

Actually DaisyJane, women can hold key roles of authority in complementarian churches. My church in Toronto currently has two Deacons, one of whom is female. Since we have only one Elder, the Senior Pastor, the Deacons are second in leadership.

 

[Waterfall]

Lets not forget about Lilith who was made equal which sort of jibes with the " other" version of adam and eve in Genesis where both male and female are made equal.
And there is a beautiful story about Paul and Thecla which was conveniently not chosen by the fathers of the church to be included in the New Testment. Probably because she was a woman that was powerful.

 

[Jaebius]

Lets not forget about Lilith who was made equal which sort of jibes with the " other" version of adam and eve in Genesis where both male and female are made equal.
And there is a beautiful story about Paul and Thecla which was conveniently not chosen by the fathers of the church to be included in the New Testment. Probably because she was a woman that was powerful.

Well, that's one theory. Another would be that such accounts were simply unworthy of being included in the canon.

 

[Waterfall]

Well, that's one theory. Another would be that such accounts were simply unworthy of being included in the canon.

Which is quite unfortunate because this was a very well known story in the early church....she once was quite renowned. She dared to baptize herself to the cheers of other women.

 

[Jaebius]

Which is quite unfortunate because this was a very well known story in the early church....she once was quite renowned. She dared to baptize herself to the cheers of other women.

The Princess and the Pea is also a well known story that many have delighted in.

 

[Ritafee]

God created humankind (adam) in the image of God and created them male and female ...
IS
God’s Image: The divine characteristics that separate humans from the animals?
IS
God's Image: The sexual characteristics of reproduction that we have in common with the animals?

 

[Ritafee]

Who was Eve's mother?

 

[Waterfall]

The Princess and the Pea is also a well known story that many have delighted in.

Thecla - Wikipedia

 

[Luce NDs]

I'm with Northwind here. That is toxic theology.

There is also strong archaeological evidence to suggest that women held positions of leadership in the early Christian church and that those positions of leadership were minimized by the patriarchal culture of the day. This misogyny has, in turn, been extended for centuries by the ongoing patriarchal culture of the modern church. When considered within the context of the ancient Jews Jesus was a pretty radical feminist and my guess is he would be appalled many of the decisions of many contemporary churches.

Can archaeological evidence be oppressed and thus carry subdued understanding below the state of the institutionalized?

Bottoms up ...

 

[Luce NDs]

And people who feel the need to control need that over others so they feel worthy. That goes against Jesus' teaching

Hey ... there must be authority so the oppressed have reason to be critical and cause waves. Consider peppermint as a funny thing ... alchemically it is the root of hormones and authorities don't wish to hear of such ghostly information ... thus curtailments in the line of restricting wide bands of thought occurring to cause waves ...

Beat eM down again Bert ... 'eals till breathing ...

 

[Luce NDs]

but neither is your view on men as leaders, just because the apostles were men, at least my view is supported by Christ character and teachings throughout the gospels, your interpretation is not.

your view is as bad as say Peter was the first pope and the line of succession of popes and authority

its a simple , power grab

Doesn't that trump all in the wash (catharsis)?

 

[Luce NDs]

So you say. I, of course, disagree. For example, there must have been something in Christ's character and reasoning that led him to choose only men to be his 12. Moreover, male leadership is primary throughout the Scriptures. Yes, there were some women who held some leadership positions, but male leadership was the norm.

In church matters one should be disagreeable ... supports the PEW! Also builds the outside society ... tis beyond the staunched ... they be plugged full of piety!

Ne're room for a thought ... thus thunk in some word traditions çunque ... i.e. dunk ... being the ancient icon of support for de sol was water ... hypothetically ... of course what do we know being educated by an authority that believes in bliss, naivete and ignorance is best? --- Peppermint Patty? Tis an instigation out of the unknown ... metaphorical gods ... state of chaos?

A chaotic heaven is not for sol stringers ... needs some extra chords for har Moni ... thus the abstract goes on ... pure semantics!

 

[Luce NDs]

Who was Eve's mother?

Like many of the ephemeral side ... raised in darkness from darkness ... few were light enough to see ... it was a Kahn 've Worms ... unless you can strike a sparkie ... flint and irony defines sah Tyre ... stone workers ... then there was Phineas Gauge ... a spark at a bad time!

Some will say I don;t connect because they can't relate to the rest of the story ... it leads on to the loss of types of memory ... and where do thoughts and memories go when wasted? It an abstract in myth ... mortals believe they can immortalize it ...