Patriarchy goes beyond the churches. Humanity extends far and beyond the Christian church - and we are a human family. There actually haven’t been any matriarchal or egalitarian societies that weren’t wiped out by patriarchy.
The women divide the plunder ?
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blackbelt, today at 5:22 a.m. I posted, "There are leadership positions that should be available to women..."
blackbelt1961 said:
It doesn't contradict my view. My view is that only men should be in the pastorate. That leaves plenty of roles open to women. Deaconess for example.
I don't know that there is any certain ratio. What's your view on that?blackbelt1961 said:
Northwind
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Apparently women can only be trusted to lead in Sunday School or the kitchen. 
I made a decision long ago that I could not belong to a church that did not ordain women. I don't care if it's a man or a woman in the actual pulpit. If women can't be ordained then that makes me second class. I refuse to accept that for myself or my sisters.
I made a decision long ago that I could not belong to a church that did not ordain women. I don't care if it's a man or a woman in the actual pulpit. If women can't be ordained then that makes me second class. I refuse to accept that for myself or my sisters.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
maybe you should study the word "Apostle " and how it was originally used, that might shed some light for you, even Jesus the son of God was called an apostle.
maybe Jesus called the 12 men because of there characters and less of a family role where the woman had children. Point is we simply don't know, we can only speculate. what we do know is God calls both men and woman.
Basically, an apostle is an ambassador sent out by a Government that one belongs too , to represent that Government, in this case, the Government of the Creator or Kingdom of God if you will.
God clearly calls both men and woman in this role, , why can't we just leave it at that and trust that God knows who to call and not get in the way of God of who and how a woman's role should be in Christ, that's simply us being religious
Calls both men and women to salvation, yes. Calls both men and women into God's Church, yes. Calls some of both men and women into leadership positions in the Church, yes.
God's Word judges the heart. The heart's open before God's all-seeing eye and before God's Word's omniscience. There's nothing hidden before God's will's proclamation. God's Word opens up to us depths of which we ourselves never imagined.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
Romans 16:7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews, who were in prison with me. They are highly respected among the apostles and became followers of Christ before I did.
the big argument of whether Junia was a boy or a girl, some Bible versions have Junias a boy, but most translate it as Junia a Girl
in my view, as most, Junia is a woman, which would fit with scripture and how God views us in Christ.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
yep
thats why I asked him what he thinks the ratio should be, 60/40,,, 80/20
i mean his own view contradicts himself
Northwind
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GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
Hi,
George
Unreserved affirmation of this insight. Basically we are faced with two alternatives. We are free to cooperate in service to the common good and we are free to serve private interest. Each of us is free to choose commitment to one or the other. Most of us are content to abstain from the practice of freedom, finding conformity simpler and less demanding*. This insight rooted in my encounter with Socrates and informing my continuing experience with Jesus.
George
*In the gospel Jesus calls for the counting of cost and the taking up of responsibility. I take this to refer to the exercise of freedom in the face of coercive power. The matter is present in the gospel of John, where we see Jesus approaching the cross and many turning aside from following in the way of freedom.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
Women in Sunday School and the kitchen only I'm sure.
talk about kitchen, my wife's making me soup in kitchen cuz I'm not feeling well
I confess i like her in the Kitchen cuz i eat well
Northwind
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I hope you feel better @blackbelt1961. My hubby spends more time in the kitchen than I do. I appreciate that and an fed well. 
It's irony.
It's irony.
yep
thats why I asked him what he thinks the ratio should be, 60/40,,, 80/20
i mean his own view contradicts himself
How so?
GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
Hi,
Jesus calls twelve men to follow in his way. A way that he reveals by his words and deeds. In the background there are a variety of women. Mary and Martha, for example, who get Jesus when the disciples seem without a clue.
My suspicion is that these women were like yeast in a batch of dough. They had a quiet influence while doing what was expected of them by the men. They prepared food, cleaned clothes, tended wounds and such things. This becomes interesting to me when we notice Jesus explaining to his disciples that he is not present as a typical male, these being those who were served by women. Rather, Jesus is here as a typical female, these being those who served males.
The light does not come on for the men until after the resurrection. That is when they realize that human being is not called to male priority and privilege. Human being is called to equality expressed as service to the common good. The apostolic community practiced this and faced strong repercussion by religious and political powers, who knew that the gospel of Jesus Christ threatened the persistence of patriarchal structures.
The story of Stephen in the book of Acts is an interesting example. In the apostolic community he is serving at table. He is called forward to testify. That testimony angers the patriarchs to the point of murder.
George
Jesus calls twelve men to follow in his way. A way that he reveals by his words and deeds. In the background there are a variety of women. Mary and Martha, for example, who get Jesus when the disciples seem without a clue.
My suspicion is that these women were like yeast in a batch of dough. They had a quiet influence while doing what was expected of them by the men. They prepared food, cleaned clothes, tended wounds and such things. This becomes interesting to me when we notice Jesus explaining to his disciples that he is not present as a typical male, these being those who were served by women. Rather, Jesus is here as a typical female, these being those who served males.
The light does not come on for the men until after the resurrection. That is when they realize that human being is not called to male priority and privilege. Human being is called to equality expressed as service to the common good. The apostolic community practiced this and faced strong repercussion by religious and political powers, who knew that the gospel of Jesus Christ threatened the persistence of patriarchal structures.
The story of Stephen in the book of Acts is an interesting example. In the apostolic community he is serving at table. He is called forward to testify. That testimony angers the patriarchs to the point of murder.
George
paradox3
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Ever notice the kudos men receive for being active in the kitchen? Do you know any marriage where the wife cooks and the husband cleans the house? And if so, how much is this contribution valued?My hubby spends more time in the kitchen than I do. I appreciate that and an fed well.
paradox3
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This seems like quite a stretch in logic to me.
"For the word of God is quick, and speedy in working, and more able to pierce than any twain-edged sword, and stretcheth forth to the parting of the soul and of the spirit, and of the jointures and marrows, and deemer of thoughts, and of intents of hearts." - Hebrews 4:12 (WYC).