The Rev. Vosper Again

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@Lastpointe

Oh, I don't think @chansen is looking for a congregation at all. There is no reason he could not drive to West Hill on Sunday morning or check out the Unitarian fellowships in the GTA.
 
paradox3 said:
@Lastpointe

Oh, I don't think @chansen is looking for a congregation at all. There is no reason he could not drive to West Hill on Sunday morning or check out the Unitarian fellowships in the GTA.
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I'm not interested. I've never attended church on any sort of regular basis. I've never believed in God in my life, and I have other things to do on a Sunday.

I just have an interest in this stuff. Doesn't mean I want to attend.
 
Lastpointe said:
To lead you must be a minister, although small churches do share ministers and lay leaders so i am not totally sure how it is worded. To be a minister you must attain the requird degree from an accepted school and be ordained

.
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This is a whole other kettle of fish. People who are ordained are CALLED to a ministry of
sacraments, word and pastoral care.

What was" staff associate" was APPOINTED to a ministry of education, word and pastoral care This is no longer

a ministry. It is now Designated Lay Minister, I believe.I believe, they are also Appointed for a period of time.

Very confusing for people.
 
crazyheart said:
Will Gretta still be Rev?
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Technically no
ANd technically possibly.

There are no hard and fast rule in the UCCan about the use of the honorific. Officially once one is on the DSL (voluntary or disciplinary) one is not to act as a member of the Order of Ministry and should probably ask people not to use it.
 
Now I know why the United FaceBook Group bugs me.

Here we ask a question and eventually some one answers

- sooner usually than later. In their group, you ask a question,

you are treated like you are stupid and no one answers.


Here is the question. Who are the 9 members who are co-founding Oasis with

Gretta.? Are any United Church? Are they confidential? or have they been

announced somewhere?
 
Haven't seen the others announced anywhere.

As far as the press is concerned Gretta's involvement is the interesting piece of information. Maybe we will hear more when it gets closer to the date of the launch.
 
Is unbelievable faith an abstract, or just trust that somewhere is nothing ... a state to fall into when entranced?

Kind 've like Rev. King's Hypo nautical drift ... some thing subtle about it like understandings about things that are too far beyond the physical state of chaos ... the here and now condition of humanity?

Ever get that floating sensation when hearing a fine myth ... that's levity ... a funny thing that can happen even in the office ... sacred social groupings?
 
crazyheart said:
This is a whole other kettle of fish. People who are ordained are CALLED to a ministry of
sacraments, word and pastoral care.
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Therein lies the rub - the idea of a "ministry of word, sacrament and pastoral care." As to word, it's my understanding from her public statements that at the very least (while the Bible has surely informed and influenced her in the past) the Bible is not central to her life or ministry now. As to sacrament, it's my understanding from her public statements that she does not provide them (although she provides alternatives - but alternatives to sacraments are not sacraments.) As to pastoral care it's my understanding from her public statements that even she has now acknowledged that she did not handle the West Hill split well - and one of the tough things in ministry is that you can't provide caring and compassionate pastoral care only to those who agree with you. Arguably, she's lacking in all three components of ordained ministry. But many don't care because people like her and she gets a lot of media attention, therefore she must be effective seems to be the argument. But popularity and attention is not a measure of effectiveness in ministry. In fact, having been involved in church disciplinary procedures, I'd be concerned - whether it's Greta and West Hill or any other United Church minister or congregation - when a congregation seems to become almost synonymous with its minister, or when the minister seems to become bigger than their congregation. That's a recipe for trouble. Not speaking specifically of Greta and West Hill, but just in general.

In any event, we all have our points of view but the issue won't be determined until September.
 
Castes that are untouchable if you are out side that Circe ... Jodi Picot touches on the unquestionable mysteries of human powers in 19 Minutes ... a story of the incarnation of Taurus ...

Many can't see anything deeper than what's on the face of the story though!
 
Do observable differences in how people see things cause conflicts that can give rise to death wishes?

Is such a wish in some stoic minds when they see variants of existence ... or not? Thus the obscure, or obtuse IDe ... an idealistic function when there is none! Mostly just a smear of virtue when it hits ... is virtue truth?
 
Four people out of 23 thought that she was suitable for ordered ministry. That's better than 1/6 of the committee. That is not an insubstantial number. When we were talking inclusion of LGBTQ members, we were talking, at best, 1 in 10 members of the church.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Four people out of 23 thought that she was suitable for ordered ministry. That's better than 1/6 of the committee. That is not an insubstantial number. When we were talking inclusion of LGBTQ members, we were talking, at best, 1 in 10 members of the church.
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Not an insubstantial number, no.

But neither is it anywhere close to a majority.

Did anyone really think the committee would achieve consensus about something so controversial? I believe we are at somewhat of a crossroads now in our denomination and we are likely to lose members no matter what is determined at the hearing in September.

Gretta has been known to lament about how divisive this has all become. But I still say she played a large part in creating the division.
 
I wonder about that. Granted this is a big topic here, and in the CBC and toronto media.

But i have mentioned her to people at my cottage who have never heard of her. Even my own toronto congregation, she is an afterthought. She simply doesnt come up, no one cares

I think the average church goer just doesnt care. So then she puts out more inane media speaches. It is all about her personal popularity.

I am actually surprised she hasnt gone into politics. That is where it all feels like it is going to me. And perhaps there she could be a voice for the needy. In the way the DiNovo tries to be
 
She doesn't even come up all that frequently in the nearly congregation which many former WHUC members attend. I can't claim she is never discussed but she certainly isn't talked about all the time.

But actually I think the church at large should be concerned that Vosper has become the public face of the United Church for so many people.

And the monthly letters in the Observer suggest that many within the denomination are most enthusiastic about her. Of course as I said earlier (and quoted one of these letters upthread) not everyone who claims to support her actually grasps what she is saying.
 
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