The Rev. Vosper Again

[paradox3]

I am actually surprised she hasnt gone into politics. That is where it all feels like it is going to me. And perhaps there she could be a voice for the needy. In the way the DiNovo tries to be

Could be that politics will be in her future along with the Oasis network. There has been some speculation that she is tired of congregational ministry but who can know?

 

[chansen]

And the monthly letters in the Observer suggest that many within the denomination are most enthusiastic about her. Of course as I said earlier (and quoted one of these letters upthread) not everyone who claims to support her actually grasps what she is saying.

The letters to the editor in general have been rabidly of the "Kick her out!" variety. People see the label "atheist minister" and lose it. She his very eloquent, and typically nuanced in her approach. The Charlie Hebdo letter was the exception because it was such a bone headed move by the moderator to appeal to the same God the killers claimed to be acting on behalf of. When atheists are murdered by the agents of God, just leave it alone if you can't leave the deity alone. Even the NRA stays silent after mass shootings with their favourite toys.

 

[paradox3]

The letters to the editor in general have been rabidly of the "Kick her out!" variety.

Oh do you think so? In the Observer? I would have said they skew in her favour but I have never done a detailed count.

 

[chansen]

I don't get the Observer. I'm talking about the Star and Facebook comments.

If you can find any of her words which suggest she has not tossed out so much of the Christian tradition, I would be very interested to read them.

You can read exerpts of her written submissions in the Observer online:
http://www.ucobserver.org/faith/2016/11/vosper_submission/

She has also written extensively on her own website:
http://www.grettavosper.ca/tag/god/

 

[paradox3]

Oh, sorry, I thought you meant the Observer. I don't follow Facebook closely but have looked in from time to time.

The links you have posted do not provide me with any new information . . . I stand by my previous comments. If you think I do not understand Gretta properly may I remind you I listened to her sermons for five years and had many conversations with her over that period of time?

Have you read either of her books, by the way? We discussed With Or Without God in considerable depth on the original WC but it might have been before you joined us.

I have never said that Gretta has not been influenced by the Christian tradition. I think it has had a significant influence on her worldview and ethical stance.

 

[Carolla]

Here is the question. Who are the 9 members who are co-founding Oasis with

Gretta.? Are any United Church? Are they confidential? or have they been

announced somewhere?

I haven't seen all the names listed anywhere, but here is an excerpt from the Toronto Star article which names 4 -

In Toronto, the group is being started by a core team of about 10 people, including West Hill United Church’s atheist minister Gretta Vosper, Humanist Canada’s Martin Frith, Bangladeshi author Raihan Abir and advocate and artist Agah Bahari. It will be the first chapter of the network in Canada.
​

I doubt the others are "confidential" they just haven't yet been named - likely just 'joe citizens' without big recognizable names, at least in the view of themedia etc. Feb. 12 is there announced launch date - so there will probably more info if you google around that time.

 

[crazyheart]

Thanks carolla.

 

[Luce NDs]

No matter what co operative groups you form there will always be someone begrudging some thing .. like the concept of nothing being there ... that void condition you see in someone's eye's when they've lost a sense of cognizance when in love.

Thus love fests and fetes of noire nature that may pronounced as know 'ire m'n! Then you may be certain you are at loose NDs ... or into abstracts hues ... that's the Shadow persona as the character playing con science ...

February is coming up and the annual fest of the mass acre at Valentines point ...

 

[paradox3]

Interestingly, depending on language and interpretation, Gretta moing to Oasis could mean that effectively she DSL's herself. THere is now a Manual section which states that if a member of the Order of Ministry becomes a clergy person in another denomination (apart from overseas partners, and (I assume) apart from those churches with who we have mutual recognition agreements) the Presbytery is to make a recommendation to Conference that the person be placed on the DSL(Voluntary).

Doug Todd has been talking about this in the Vancouver Sun.
Gretta has blogged a response, pointing out that Oasis is neither a denomination nor a faith group.

I have been starting to wonder about the relationship between WHUC and Oasis Toronto (the new group). . . are they at arms-length or not?

WHUC affiliated with the Oasis Network about a year ago which seemed like an unusual move to me.

 

[Carolla]

I would guess that clergy do sit on other community group boards from time to time ... seems that would be supportable ... so if Gretta is on this board ... how would that be different?

 

[paradox3]

There might be an argument that the Oasis Network is in conflict with the faith stance of the United Church. But this is a different argument than the one put forth by Doug Todd.

 

[Luce NDs]

There might be an argument that the Oasis Network is in conflict with the faith stance of the United Church. But this is a different argument than the one put forth by Doug Todd.

Is philosophy and faith so separated by the idea of love of knowledge, and a stoic position of: "no questions allowed"?

 

[Luce NDs]

Consider the following (if it works):
http://www.ted.com/talks/parul_sehgal_an_ode_to_envy

An interesting perspective of the stoic personality in religious fixation as distant from philosophy as the love of knowledge and wisdom ... thus wisdom is separate from the opposing fixation? From such expressions how does one reconcile the command to teach the children about eternal things ... thus the sol roles ... .. on in a green hue as everlasting grasslands ... Moors with hounding thoughts ...

The Fathers of Rome didn't wish common folk (pagans) to know; why? Because then the pagans might learn more than the Lord-fathers and MOG wouldn't be impressed ... would MOG then be that ghost of Psyche sitting on de avid shoulder busting through the time machine as subliminal con-science .. a steered observation as a beam ... or Rae 've hope as a Nous to lift one out of the pits of that other powerful emotion. This leads to the song ... He ain't heavy heis my sacred breather in ... few understand the hidden linguistic style as a wavy line/lyon of opposing power ... Jude-an vs Rome Anne ... resembles a Griffon!

You did know Anne was derived from the Greek "an" for a concern that comes back at yah ... sort of like that un conscious thingy ... hidden in the shade!

 

[Mendalla]

There might be an argument that the Oasis Network is in conflict with the faith stance of the United Church. But this is a different argument than the one put forth by Doug Todd.

How would they be in conflict? If they are actively promoting an atheist stance and trying to draw church members out of church, maybe but arguable. But if they are just trying to provide a community and gathering place for non-theists, I see no conflict.

 

[Luce NDs]

Do many UCC theologians question the basis of staid theology?

It appears so from where I sit ... and still one can learn ... d' evil being any Nous satyr ... demon ish thought? Disturbs the staid sense to a point ... Eros or Cupids arrow regarding love of psyche ...

 

[paradox3]

How would they be in conflict? If they are actively promoting an atheist stance and trying to draw church members out of church, maybe but arguable. But if they are just trying to provide a community and gathering place for non-theists, I see no conflict.

We will have to wait and see how it all plays out.

 

[Luce NDs]

"how it all plays out"

Liebestraum ... or the song of a dream of love ... an aspiration to get out of the domain of cultivated hate for the stranger.

Hitler translated it into a dimension for the perfect rush to expand ... Blitzkrieg?

Like d' avid's envy, the Shadowy Lady he couldn't leave as she was ... but learn from Ur prescience ... B' fore thought, as abstract immaterial entity in the notorious time machinations! It takes a pile to make a point ... overwhelmed by the del taove Ve Nous ... and everything fell into the Rift ... a freek'n icon ...

It's dark out there ... if one can get away from the flaming staid one's that have all they need to know: "con-fi-dance"!

Who'd share those secrets? Tis part of the guild of the loch-up ... there's gotta be another place than staid reality! Just stretch, ankh a bit, jerk about ... imagine ... tis dark odds rite?

Never state it straight out as it would cross with those that believe they know all ...

 

[Luce NDs]

What's out there Esperanto's ... and Moors ... people who vault bulls? They have the secret chord ... Skye hook Eire?

Da RD end eLLe's of Lord Byron's notability, or notoriety as they left biz ante AUM ... suspended bridge ... great schism ...

 

[chansen]

We will have to wait and see how it all plays out.

Will Gretta use Oasis as the means to have "Voluntary" attached to her DSL? I kinda doubt it. I don't see her walking away from West Hill, unless she is pushed out by the Conference. It certainly isn't the congregation pushing her out, so I don't see her walking out on those people. Maybe I'm wrong.

But Mendalla has a point that Oasis is not "in conflict" with the United Church. If Oasis is, then every other faith group is in conflict. Other faith groups are in competition, but "conflict" goes too far. This is the same thing as saying atheist billboards are "attacks". I assume you'd never suggest a local mosque was in conflict with the United Church, but a group of atheists are.

Once again, the bar for "militant" atheists "attacking" and being "in conflict" with Christians is set amazingly low. It used to be the atheists had to erect a billboard to be labelled as such. Now, they only have to start an organization and meet once a week. It's to the point where atheists sneezing might be seen as "aggressive".

 

[paradox3]

But Mendalla has a point that Oasis is not "in conflict" with the United Church. If Oasis is, then every other faith group is in conflict. Other faith groups are in competition, but "conflict" goes too far.

Of course not. That is not what I was trying to say at all. Sorry if my wording was sloppy upthread.

I was thinking more along the lines of Gretta being in a conflict of interest position but that might not even be it exactly.