the Madonna/ Whore complex

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I've heard of that before. Apparently psychiatrists/sociologists have done studies on that dynamic plenty. I guess guys just need to be taught from early on that women are fully complex human beings with virtues and faults just like men.
 
Kimmio said:
Is falling in love in the romantic sense a mistake? Is it just a plain stupid thing to do? 50% of marriages end in divorce now so maybe it is stupid.
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Falling in love is not a mistake. Expecting it to never change is a mistake. Both halves of the couple will change with age and experience and that cannot help but change the relationship. Sometimes, adaptation may not happen or be possible and then breakups happen. My wife and I are not the same people or in the same relationship that we were 25 years ago (we've been a couple for just over 26 years and married for 22 of them).

To answer the broader thrust of this thread, I was raised in a "traditional" home for the most part. This became painfully obvious when Mom died and Dad was left on his own. He simply was not equipped to do it and went through a failed second relationship before meeting the woman he was married to up until his death (my sort-of stepmother, though given that I was almost 40 when they married, she never really filled that bill for me). He definitely seems to have fit the pattern you're getting at.

Not sure if my generation will be better or worse in this regard. I am quite capable of living on my own and taking care of myself because we lived apart for so much of the early part of our relationship (at one point, with her Down East and me in Ontario) and I've been there, done that. In fact, I've often said that if, God forbid, this marriage ends prematurely (divorce, death, other circumstances), I'm probably out of the marriage game. I'd want a "girlfriend" as company for trips, concerts, etc. (yes, and that, too :whistle:) but not a fulltime, live-in spouse unless we were "perfect for each other" and I know that such a thing just does not exist. For me, a wife is a partner, companion, co-parent, but not a substitute mother. But am I typical? No idea.

I'm glad to see you talking out your pain over this @Kimmio and hope having this place to do that is a help. Take care and good vibes.
 
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I don't believe in divorce, though, or I would never have said "I do". i would've just carried on living together, or not. Marriage was a big deal, to me, and he always said it was, too. To me, marriage is a promise to adapt and grow and stick with it and get through to the other side of problems. Not a promise to be responsible for the others happiness or a perfect relationship. No one, not the most perfect hero or muse or whoever, can ever promise to never have any problems. Commitment is about integrity and maturity, and I don't think he had it. And beyond the early infatuation...love is a choice. He chose not to, after promising to, and it hurts.
 
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My husband is capable. he's not stupid, or incapable, just unwilling. He just takes for granted being the one served/ helped, and resents having to do those things, be counted on, or be responsible for anything because "it's not the kind of home he grew up in". My guess is, he'll meet a woman who is a bit old school from his culture next time so he can make her into a mother type, she'll be used to it, and secretly entertain his fantasies without her, same pattern eventually repeated, and hope his partner puts up with it with no complaints. Or, he will seek to try to convert someone he sees as a "good time girl" into the type that will serve him, and it will backfire because she won't put up with being painted into a corner. I don't think he'll get far with that. Nobody else could be as foolish as I was to put myself in that position. he might be in for a bit of a shock or disappointment to discover that not everyone would be as patient as I was. Ideally, he will learn to look after himself, his own health and wellbeing, be well, and not put it onto anybody. But....?
 
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I just accidentally deleted my post. I hit delete instead of cancel, too. I was just saying it'll be a couple of years at least before I am ready to even think about getting serious with anyone else. And rebound relationships usually don't work out, and only add insult to injury anyway. I am not the type to get drunk and get laid to get it off my mind. I have received that ill advice from a friend, but I know it would just hurt more the next day. It would likely make me feel empty and miss him more. I know myself well enough to know that's not for me now. I think I need a gay best friend, like Will and Grace...who will shower me with strong hugs and compliments but be totally safe and platonic - for awhile. I need a confidence boost from a man who doesn't want to get in a woman's pants, or need a mom to look after him.
 
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I read it can take anywhere from 4 to 18 months to start to feel "normal". I am thinking, likely the longer number, for me. I really, really, want to take all the time it takes, to heal as fully as I can from this and not set myself up for ANY hurt. I don't want anymore heartbreak related pain.


And there's that part of me that still hopes for, "I'm sorry. Let's work on it." But realistically, I really doubt it now. I am still wearing my engagement and wedding rings. I like them, they're meaningful, and they look nice. I just can't take them off. When I do, I will probably throw up from the anguish.
 
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it is just that looking after him, being there for the seizures, learning about his conditions, all that, really became my world here. I kind of lost myself in his health needs. Really, I wanted him to be just as interested in his own health and wellbeing, and be an equal partner to me in every way. It didn't turn out like that. he didn't have a stroke that makes him incapable of doing that. We are not his parents, or mine. We were us. He is capable of whatever he puts his mind and effort to. It just that he put responsibility onto me, chose to make me that (and I let it happen) and got disheartened that I wasn't doing that as much as he expected, because I was feeling insecure and depressed...really also not not knowing how to work on anything because I was stonewalled and can't read his mind. And yet, he pointed out my lack of confidence as a problem for him. It's just crazymaking.
 
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Kimmio said:
i wish I could afford two weeks at some expensive spa retreat. That would help!
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I feel for you. Maybe there is something cheaper you can do to treat yourself. Take a few days off to just curl up with a good book, binge watch your favorite tv. shows or whatever it is that is being good to yourself. Maybe even some candles and bubble bath at home will do the trick if allow yourself to have the mindset of a well earned indulgence.
 
So, I've been trying to psychoanalize him..just putting pieces together. It's probably futile to do that. I need to do more self analysis. Also, trying to let go of the bitterness. It's so hard, it's an emotional back and forth between missing him deeply, and feeling angry with him, and disappointed in my own failure. I have abandonment issues that don't make it easier to be in these circumstances. For real reasons...divorced parents in a decades long battle, emotionally abusive mom, emotionally cold/ unavailable step-mom, bullying step-siblings (which in my childhood/ youth years I had no choice about) feeling rejected/ abandoned/ or shunned intimately by the one I love, "intimately" abandoned already - To a fake world he didn't want to let me in on - before my husband actually left me. All these things mentioned have been real, not imagined abandonment...not unfounded fears or over-reactions to petty things. So, I am used to loving people who hurt and reject me. Some of the closest people in my life. It's a cycle. Most of my life. That's why I have actually done better and been more confident to accomplish things on my own, when I have been able to put some emotional distance from people, even my own mother, out of self preservation, because I invariably end up with or close to someone who fits that old pattern in one form or another. I guess it's familiar. But that doesn't mean I am an emotionally distant person or that I don't want or need companionship, sex, all the things of a relationship...I just don't want to be hurt. I didn't go into it wanting to be hurt. I am very clear about what I value, but I think I often subconsciously end up thinking I don't deserve to be treated well myself, even though intellectually I know that's not right...so I am stunted by that inner conflict. I suppose I should know better, and I beat myself up for that, too. I don't give the same advice to myself as I would to others. Depression is my default response to it.
 
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we had some big problems, and it takes two willing and open, to work them out. But I really miss my husband's sense of humour, goofiness...he can be charming, he could knock me off my feet. He sang in the shower...I miss his voice. I miss watching movies with him and talking about them. I miss going out for walks and doing things with him. I miss the stories he told me, and me him, about our lives and upbringing. I miss talking to him. I miss sharing how our days went. i miss the home we had together before we had to move. It wasn't all bad, but the stress we had going on overwhelmed any effort we could've made to face and work on the bigger stuff. I really don't think he intentionally set out to hurt me.

Still missing him.
 
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I have no experience in what you are going through Kimmio and so have no advice but want you to know that I am thinking of you and I hope that each day slowly becomes a little easier. Be gentle to yourself and take your time.
 
Thanks, Greywolf. I hope nobody has to go through something like this - I am not the first, I know that, but that doesn't change that it's hard. It feels better to talk it out finally, and have some support. For weeks I couldn't talk much about it. I have a counsellor, but only every week or two. I appreciate the thoughts and support here.
 
I think this "Where am I at, where have I been, where am I going?" stuff is midlife crisis. Not everyone goes through one. Some people go through more than one, probably, too - or a prolonged one. :confused:(n)
 
I feel like my boyfriend has this. He used to date older women but now he's dating a 19 year old(also a virgin) like me. Since I'm somewhat affectionate, understanding, and provide emotional support like a mother, he's trying to carve me into both the mother, and the whore. When I lack any sort of etiquette that either the experienced whore or the older woman has, he corrects me, or brings up my shortcomings or flaws. I feel like whatever I do will never be good enough. I feel like I'm going out of my way to be super affectionate, I feel like he wants me to be obsessed with him. I also feel like at the same time, in bed he takes it too far, often disregarding any of my feelings, sometimes later if I'm lucky I'll get an apology. He'll subtly bring up my flaws in very discreet ways, he has once compared me to other girls, and has made super lewd comments about females and shemales lol(just my luck). i feel drained, too attached to leave, like I want my power back, and not good enough. I felt like in the past month, I've played his psychologist, tried playing his mother but oh yeah, I can't cook, his bestfriends with whom he talks about good looking people with and watches porn with, his teacher who helps him with math, and his whore who he slaps around in the bedroom and whose tits he sucks in the park without a care of someone else seeing. I've also given him my bus pass, and spent so much money to make him happy on his birthday. Being an impressionable, but affectionate 19 year old who doesn't know how to set boundaries properly, he feels like he can carve me into both, but I lack both the etiquette or the grace to be either modonna or the whore. Funny thing is he's 31. But here's the thing with me, I have daddy issues myself. I want to be protected and taken care of, and possessed as a gem, not some disposable trash. I feel like he doesn't love me but loves the fantasy of having a mother that's obsessed with taking care of him, and a whore who can please him in the bedroom. But I want to be treated like a lady. Any advice for me? Any woman that has experienced this?
 
Hi Tiana - welcome to WonderCafe2 - you'll find it to be an interesting place - glad your found your way here.

Personally, I think it's important in relationships to know who you are, what your own values are, and be true to that - and that's still evolving for you at this age - learning how to look after yourself is important. For me, respect is crucial in any relationship, and your writing suggests you don't feel respected or valued in the way you would like in your present relationship. You mention boundaries too - also really important. There are some great books & resources you can read about that ... you're showing wisdom to be thinking about that. Good sign that you're identifying issues and asking questions about yourself in this relationship.
 
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