the Madonna/ Whore complex
- Thread starter Kimmio Laughterlove
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Well, no, it was absolutely exactly the M/W dynamic...with possibly, quite probably some other mental health stuff going on actually...diagnosed but not followed up on. And a big side order of immaturity.
He lived with his brother when I met him (they are both very attached to mama though - she literally cannot do wrong)...ever since acquiring epilepsy following a major illness, he has lived with someone. Every little stint on his own he did not look after himself, was prone to instability. He took care of his seizures so poorly it was almost dangerous for him to live alone...not almost, it was. But he's a "man" so don't remind him that he's got a disability he needs to look after...there was that, too. Plus, he comes from a war torn place, and is very complex, messed up from that in subtle ways. I can't relate, most people can't ...many people who have gone through pains we can't begin to understand and hope we never experience...but it messed them up. That whole country/ region is still wounded.
He lived with his brother when I met him (they are both very attached to mama though - she literally cannot do wrong)...ever since acquiring epilepsy following a major illness, he has lived with someone. Every little stint on his own he did not look after himself, was prone to instability. He took care of his seizures so poorly it was almost dangerous for him to live alone...not almost, it was. But he's a "man" so don't remind him that he's got a disability he needs to look after...there was that, too. Plus, he comes from a war torn place, and is very complex, messed up from that in subtle ways. I can't relate, most people can't ...many people who have gone through pains we can't begin to understand and hope we never experience...but it messed them up. That whole country/ region is still wounded.
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he didn't come out and say he wanted me to do everything, but his mom always asked what I cooked for him and said "look after each other" which really meant look after her son. Most house business he just left to me and didn't bother with, so if I didn't do it, no one would...included in that was helping him find work so all he would have to do is show up. My job was to make sure he did not worry, and his mom did not worry. I blew it, I guess.
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He compared me a lot to his mom...except i did ask him to help me in the house and do things for himself, even to help me out when I needed it, but that was not the kind of home he grew up in - he told me so after he left....his mother didn't need help she was a super-woman (to him) - so I think he only resented it. It sounds to me like, if his mom did everything...before the war, he grew up like Little Lord Fontelroy, actually. He left his parents as a war refugee, without skills for the day to day stuff. His growth was stunted by that, too. Not saying I was perfect, but he had his issues.
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i lived on my own for many years, and quite honestly did better for myself on my own...fell down quite a bit with him...but I still wanted a companion. I thought we understood each other, but I guess not.
the whore stuff...yeah, he just generally had unrealistic ideas about women, and broke them into categories. He made off handed sexist remarks, I'd glare him down, he'd apologize. He did tell me I was "too good" to look at porn...which I am not interested in but was interested in making that aspect of our lives better and was willing to try. But that was his secret life, and he was offended by the idea of letting me in...it was not so secret though. I knew. But that is the sort of behaviour - if one has to be secretive - that can be really harmful and damage potential for intimacy with anyone, and lead to porn addiction or worse. He was not so protective of me being a "good girl", though, when we met...but I slowly crossed the threshold from whore to mother in his mind. And that dichotomy was set up for me. He only pretended to be egalitarian...but I think he harbours the idea women just exist to serve men's needs how they see fit. It was emotionally abusive of him to paint me into a corner...and I let it happen. His doing what he did made me feel so insecure, then he would tell me that confidence is attractive, after destroying mine...I mean, did he actually wonder why I felt insecure? Or was it deliberate?nevertheless, I am now wounded...my mom did the same to me, in a different way.
I still miss him. I am struggling to put the pieces of our problems together, and I am angry, but if there was nothing good about him, I would not have loved him.
Being in financial crisis magnified our other problems x10. If we hadn't had those...I think we could've worked out. But, it was up to me to help us, help him, to get us out of that...unfairly...without self awareness or much initiative on his part to contribute...but honestly I think he expected that because he learned, falsely or not, that his mom would've so it was up to me, too. And I was so insecure and depressed, I failed to pull us up.
Being in financial crisis magnified our other problems x10. If we hadn't had those...I think we could've worked out. But, it was up to me to help us, help him, to get us out of that...unfairly...without self awareness or much initiative on his part to contribute...but honestly I think he expected that because he learned, falsely or not, that his mom would've so it was up to me, too. And I was so insecure and depressed, I failed to pull us up.
My husband's mom takes care of his dad 24/7 because he had a stroke. But even before that, he didn't even know how to make coffee. He didn't do anything "domestic". He brought home a pay check. But so did his mom. She literally spent her entire Saturday off cooking so the boys could pull something out of the freezer if she was at work. I am NOT like that. But I never, as far as I know, agreed to be. My dad knows how to cook, especially BBQ, but he makes great chili and omelettes, and several things. My step mom is better at it but he would not expect to rely on her for it, if she also worked as much as him or was sick. He is not too proud or lazy to do laundry - and he was a great parent to my brother and to me as little kids. He does a more traditionally male role in several ways but the point is, he does not resent chipping in around the house. neither does my stepdad. Maybe I expected my husband to be more like that...or he pretended he was willing to be.
And there, where my husband was raised...not only was it old fashioned then, jobs were secure for life. IN fact, they are moving to a more western EU employment model there now, giving employers more flexibility to fire people and workers are really upset. Here jobs are more uncertain and one has to rely on our own wits and skills to find and keep good work. His dad is a kind man, but his mom did everything, and in his eyes, that's a good wife. I guess I wasn't a good wife.
And there, where my husband was raised...not only was it old fashioned then, jobs were secure for life. IN fact, they are moving to a more western EU employment model there now, giving employers more flexibility to fire people and workers are really upset. Here jobs are more uncertain and one has to rely on our own wits and skills to find and keep good work. His dad is a kind man, but his mom did everything, and in his eyes, that's a good wife. I guess I wasn't a good wife.
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Funny how such things (unseen) can go missing ... and therein is the concept of a given ... in old languages "a'donis" ... a beautiful thing ... but few know it due to possession attributes.
Tis a hard thing to learn ... equity ... with some come and go entangled in theory! Creates quite the Maas of mankind ...
In some the coming of this third fate ... leads one to suspect there's more to it that how it appears ... an incarnation of the alien?
Tis a hard thing to learn ... equity ... with some come and go entangled in theory! Creates quite the Maas of mankind ...
In some the coming of this third fate ... leads one to suspect there's more to it that how it appears ... an incarnation of the alien?
The things and attributes we don't know are extensive regardless of the words of experts on knowing the eternal explicit!
Thus the pilgrimage continues ... some say you don't know when going over the edge ... as long as it is well-whetted ... then you know there is something to this inner power attribute ... some body took off with something of your that you don't quite understand? Was thi an understanding in it's elf?
Thus the pilgrimage continues ... some say you don't know when going over the edge ... as long as it is well-whetted ... then you know there is something to this inner power attribute ... some body took off with something of your that you don't quite understand? Was thi an understanding in it's elf?
Like my step-mom said...my husband never "had my back"...but I was expected to have his.
Thus one should always have a good back-up ... that sense of past learning ... difficult for those completely into presence.
In the present state can we see the errs done by all the past incidents with the greater psyche?
Many believe the psyche does not exist ... a desire that others should not be able to conceive thoughts and thus easier to buffalo ... something to avoid in a truer relationship ... open body, spirit and soul ... and yet we have this religious sacredness on one side or the other ... leaves on sort of sensing hopelessness that must be kept at bay ... knowing space time is too deep to grasp other than minimally in our present state. There is more to come ... we may not have the same awareness in the ploughing through the wall of what has transgressed ...
In the present state can we see the errs done by all the past incidents with the greater psyche?
Many believe the psyche does not exist ... a desire that others should not be able to conceive thoughts and thus easier to buffalo ... something to avoid in a truer relationship ... open body, spirit and soul ... and yet we have this religious sacredness on one side or the other ... leaves on sort of sensing hopelessness that must be kept at bay ... knowing space time is too deep to grasp other than minimally in our present state. There is more to come ... we may not have the same awareness in the ploughing through the wall of what has transgressed ...
My husband was attracted to my "modernity", and tenacity, earlier on. It's ironic. He finds that attractive...but he wants that and a good dedicated little wifey... he shouldn't expect two extremes to exist in one person, changing at his whim. That's not fair to me to put that much on me. And it's also why after I became the "wifey/ mother" type for him, other tenacious, but unreal and unavailable porn women looked attractive to him. But he didn't want to discuss and find the middle ground. And besides, he did that, he set us up for that! And I wanted him to be self aware and look after himself better, not to look after a 40 yr old adolescent. Good luck to him. I am not sure he learned anything, actually. He'll do this again to somebody else, unless she is smarter and doesn't fall for it or tolerate it.
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Thus women genre progresses and manly genre is stuck!
Do you find that eternally humour us ... thus influencing ye gods ...? and goddesses inclusive as the ones with a place to park it ... thoughts that are sort of psychic in genre? Something to probe in depth ... and thus it was a stupefying incident in a'mons life ... that heh neva got ova ... and thus back to the chicken 'n Rhodes pseudonym ... the way was blind ... thus the dark screw Jaques ... allowing a glimpse ... of whatever ... as sensationalism blows the senses ... literally it has nothing on literalisms as devices of myth ... and things un believed ...
Really it is poorly accepted ... as a sign of intent passions ... poor ethix, or literal po'ethic ... thus they don't grasp sextant poems that appear as they ain't or manifestations of when coupling has blown IT ... an imperfect state of wisdom? Such things pass ... like a flood of dark waters ... profoundly sublime ... really? They do leave people chilled by potential out comers ... de vi ates?
Do you find that eternally humour us ... thus influencing ye gods ...? and goddesses inclusive as the ones with a place to park it ... thoughts that are sort of psychic in genre? Something to probe in depth ... and thus it was a stupefying incident in a'mons life ... that heh neva got ova ... and thus back to the chicken 'n Rhodes pseudonym ... the way was blind ... thus the dark screw Jaques ... allowing a glimpse ... of whatever ... as sensationalism blows the senses ... literally it has nothing on literalisms as devices of myth ... and things un believed ...
Really it is poorly accepted ... as a sign of intent passions ... poor ethix, or literal po'ethic ... thus they don't grasp sextant poems that appear as they ain't or manifestations of when coupling has blown IT ... an imperfect state of wisdom? Such things pass ... like a flood of dark waters ... profoundly sublime ... really? They do leave people chilled by potential out comers ... de vi ates?
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he can be a charmer.
Both gods and demons have those attributes ... how to know the difference?
Trial and error or outside testing according to those insisting on blind faith ... that might be fey eth ... or ethereal domains where things have gone missing ... we bits of intellectual chit as not noted afore hand ...
Such describes but does not define the content of a great mind that Romantics found distasteful as they despised thinkers ... as Ba's alt ... the foundational Cos ... an oppressed concern?
Trial and error or outside testing according to those insisting on blind faith ... that might be fey eth ... or ethereal domains where things have gone missing ... we bits of intellectual chit as not noted afore hand ...
Such describes but does not define the content of a great mind that Romantics found distasteful as they despised thinkers ... as Ba's alt ... the foundational Cos ... an oppressed concern?
Is falling in love in the romantic sense a mistake? Is it just a plain stupid thing to do? 50% of marriages end in divorce now so maybe it is stupid.
i am afraid of ending up bitter like my mom, who, I think really lost her capacity to love after my dad left her. Even though she is remarried. It destroyed her. She can't forgive him. She was so mean to me. And quite frankly, I don't look forward to risking my heart breaking over anyone again, or it'll kill me. I can't go through this pain ever again. He's the first and last I will ever be married to, because I really am done with romantic heartache. So, maybe I have to build a wall around my heart, because I am vulnerable, I am a romantic.
But I already feel the bitterness seeping in, like some days when people smile at me I just wonder what the f'k they're so happy about. That's the kind of bitterness my mom has. But it's not really me, it's me on the defensive against all this pain I'm in.
But I already feel the bitterness seeping in, like some days when people smile at me I just wonder what the f'k they're so happy about. That's the kind of bitterness my mom has. But it's not really me, it's me on the defensive against all this pain I'm in.
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Kimmio, I think many of us go through this "self analysis" and it often happens in our 30's for some reason. We reflect and soul search to understand why we are like we are. Our family of origin is put under a microscope and we suddenly have many "aha" moments. One of the books I read at your age was, "Dance of Anger", you might enjoy it too? Basically we don't have to accept we will become our Mom or recreate a hurtful upbringing if we recognize the pattern. Change is possible but it takes time.
You're going through a lot of grief with this loss and I'm sorry you're hurting so much. Take some time to nourish your soul and love you.....
You're going through a lot of grief with this loss and I'm sorry you're hurting so much. Take some time to nourish your soul and love you.....