The Joys of John

[Mendalla]

For me, the "Worldly" is a focus on material things and "Spiritual" is a focus on things like meaning and morality. A good human life requires both in some kind of balance. Being spiritual is meaningless if you are dying because you neglected material needs. Focussing entirely on the material can lead to poor relationships and a lack of a basic framework for living. A balance means they can offset each other in a harmonious way. Of course, the proviso there is that for me, "spiritual" is not about some "higher/other realm" but about how we focus our minds and energies.

On the passage itself, it really seems to imply that Jesus is a bit of a mouthpiece for the Father, doesn't it? That whole "nothing on my own initiative" thing. Which fits with a high Christology and Jesus as the incarnate Son, I guess.

“When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he,[r] and I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak just what the Father taught me.[t] 29 And the one who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, because I always do those things that please him.”

 

[paradox3]

We need the physical, emotional and spiritual dimensions of life to be fully human, I believe.

Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a real oldie, but it still works for me when I consider how these things interplay..

 

[Mendalla]

We need the physical, emotional and spiritual dimensions of life to be fully human, I believe.

Yeah, in health class we were taught those form an equilateral triangle and that idea sank in. Makes sense to me but I am a big believer in balance in existence rather than in going to extremes. You see it in my politics, too, not just my religious thinking.

 

[GordW]

Thanks as always for sharing your perspective and worldview here @unsafe.

Personally, I don't see the dichotomy you describe between the Worldly and the Spiritual.

The differences in our respective points of view might boil down to what we believe about the nature of scripture. I don't rule out divine inspiration but I see it as a human product.

When I read John's Gospel, I always keep in mind that it is persuasive writing from an author with a high Christology. Probably as high as you will find anywhere.

In some (many) places in John's Gospel it is much more obvious that the writer is doing theology with a history gloss rather than history with a theological explanation.

 

[paradox3]

@Mendalla
Threefold models seem to hold a strong appeal for all of us

The triangle from health class is a good example. I remember it.

Occupational therapy has a similar theoretical foundation. In the I980's one of our gurus (male) told us we were all about Work, Leisure and ADL. I met him once and found him insufferable. Maybe @Carolla remembers GK?

Then the field of psychosocial rehab told us life is actually about Living, Learning and Working. But I digress.

Maybe we should get back to the Holy Trinity.

 

[unsafe]

The differences in our respective points of view might boil down to what we believe about the nature of scripture

Ya for sure -----How we perceive how Scripture was written down certainly plays a part in the view we have of the Scripture --I agree with that -----

Personally, I don't see the dichotomy you describe between the Worldly and the Spiritual.

I think Jesus did ---as far as our worldly and spiritual Births goes ---

He made this Statement to Nicodemus =====

John 3:6 Expanded B​

​

6 Human life comes from human parents [ That which is born of the flesh is flesh;  flesh here means human nature], but ·spiritual life comes from the Spirit [ that which is born of the Spirit is spirit].

--Just my thoughts here ------------Your born first with a Human Flawed Nature your away from God ---then Reborn with a Holy Nature - adopted back to be in God's presents ----So I would think that by changing your Nature --it would change your perception on the way you view Scripture ?

I think trying to balance your physical life with your real spiritual life would be quite hard -----as your heart can't be split in 2 ----

Scripture says you can't serve 2 masters ----

 

[Mendalla]

@Mendalla
Threefold models seem to hold a strong appeal for all of us

The triangle from health class is a good example. I remember it.

Occupational therapy has a similar theoretical foundation. In the I980's one of our gurus (male) told us we were all about Work, Leisure and ADL. I met him once and found him insufferable. Maybe @Carolla remembers GK?

Then the field of psychosocial rehab told us life is actually about Living, Learning and Working. But I digress.

Maybe we should get back to the Holy Trinity.

Humans have a thing about threes, really. Beside the examples we've given and the Trinity, there's the Roman Capitoline Triad (Jupiter, Juno, Minerva) who were kind of the top trio among the Roman deities and were equated to Zeus, Hera, and Athena for the Greeks.

And the significance of hat tricks (three goals in a game) in certain sports like hockey.

Three Musketeers (though with d'Artagnan, it quickly became four).

 

[paradox3]

Three sisters = corn, beans and squash grown together

I seem to remember from geometry that 3 points are needed for a plane vs only 2 for a line. So maybe there is something inherently stable about those threes.

 

[Mendalla]

Three sisters = corn, beans and squash grown together

The three Fates/Norns. The Fates are Greek, the Norns are their Norse/Germanic counterparts. Three women who weave the fate of people and the world. Some suggest Shakespeare's three witches in Macbeth are actually the Fates given a form more palatable to his time.

 

[paradox3]

The three gifts of the Magi which we always assume means three guys.

 

[GordW]

ANd when building Triangles are considered a strong shape, stronger than a square (so if you have a square you may often find a diagonal cros brac which make 2 triangles)

 

[paradox3]

Thoughts, feelings and behavior.

 

[Mendalla]

ANd when building Triangles are considered a strong shape, stronger than a square

Which, I think, brings us back to the health triangle this started with. A triangle is strong so makes a good symbol for a healthy person.

 

[paradox3]

Goldilocks and the Three Bears

The Three Little Pigs

Three days in the belly of the whale.
Rising from the dead on the third day.

 

[Mendalla]

A trio is basically the minimum size for a rock band (guitar, bass, drums) and that's assuming at least one of those doubles up on vocals (e.g. Geddy Lee in Rush). Probably not actually relevant here, but it is a three you run across in popular culture.

 

[paradox3]

Two's company. Three's a crowd.

The days of our lives are threescore years and ten.

Fish and houseguests stink after three days.

 

[Mendalla]

The famous Roman triumvirates. First was Julius Caesar, Pompey, and Crassus. Second was Octavian (the later Augustus), Marcus Antonius, and Lepidus. In each case, two military/civil leaders and a rich dude to finance things.

 

[paradox3]

John 8:31-59

Bible Gateway passage: John 8:31-59 - New English Translation

Abraham’s Children and the Devil’s Children - Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, “If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” “We are descendants of Abraham,” they replied, “and have never...

www.biblegateway.com

Some of the Judeans who have believed in Jesus reveal their doubts. By the end of the chapter, they are ready to stone Jesus.

Jesus continues to stress that he is doing the bidding of his Father. He also claims to pre-exist Abraham.

 

[paradox3]

Here we see John's belief that Jesus existed at the beginning of time. We don't find this in the synoptic gospels at all.

John also presents a rather judgemental Jesus in this reading.

 

[unsafe]

We see in the very first line of the NET Translation as posted

Great verses here today showing Jesus being straight up in telling Spiritual truths ------So needed in our Churches today ====

The Title ----

Abraham’s Children and the Devil’s Children​

2 sets of children ---one belongs to the god of this world and the other belongs to the God of Abraham --Isaac and Jacob ----

Now --we don't have to believe that ---but it won't change what the Word says -----and we can try and interpret it as we like --but it says what it says ---very clearly ==and plainly --------

I say --------In the previous verses Jesus says who the Pharisees belong to here-----
verses 23-24 ----

23 He said to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world.
24 That is why I told you that you will die [unforgiven and condemned] in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am the One [I claim to be], you will die in your sins.
I say ------And in today's verses He shows us who are true Disciples and who are not ----

31 “If you abide in My word [continually obeying My teachings and living in accordance with them, then] you are truly My disciples.

34 Jesus answered, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, everyone who practices sin habitually is a slave of sin.

I say ----The Pharisees come back with------

33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been enslaved to anyone.

Jesus responds here ----

37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you plan to kill Me, because My word has no place [to grow] in you [and it makes no change in your heart].

I say -----So we see Jesus telling them that His Word really rolls off their backs and doesn't penetrate inside because of their hardened Heart ------and that is true today

Jesus says --if you are truly Abraham's children --then do as Abraham did ---but they want to Kill Jesus --and His says that is not the way of Abraham -----

And here it is ----Jesus calling the Pharisees children of the devil -----just going to post the Scripture ----as it is ---verses 43-44

43 Why do you misunderstand what I am saying? It is because [your spiritual ears are deaf and] you are unable to hear [the truth of] My word.

44 You are of your father the devil, and it is your will to practice the desires [which are characteristic] of your father.
He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks what is natural to him, for he is a liar and the father of lies and half-truths.

I say ----this half-truth here is important because today Many Clergy when Preaching will give you a Half-Truth ---not the whole truth but half of the truth -----which of course is a lie ----

AI

In scripture, a half-truth is indeed considered a lie because it involves deception and manipulation of the truth, even if some parts of the statement are accurate. It is a way of misleading someone by withholding key information or highlighting only certain aspects of a situation to create a false impression.

Again the Pharisees cannot understand the Spiritual meaning of what Jesus is saying and He tells them why
47 Whoever is of God and belongs to Him hears [the truth of] God’s words; for this reason you do not hear them: because you are not of God and you are not in fellowship with Him.”
and that stands today ----Folks

The Pharisees remain stead fast in their following Abraham and rejecting to believe who Jesus is ---

and as we know still today many Jews remain faithful in following Abraham and Moses who they consider the 2 central figures in their Judaism Religion ----

AI

Yes, in Judaism, Abraham and Moses are central figures. Judaism traces its origins to the covenant God made with Abraham, and Moses is considered the most important prophet in Judaism. Abraham is viewed as the patriarch who first believed in and followed God, and Moses is credited with receiving the Ten Commandments and leading the Israelites out of slavery in Egypt.

I say
Now --we see Jesus makes a statement here ----The truth will set you free ---What does that really mean Spiritually

Going to let Got Questions answer that -----Read all yourselves just posting this part

What does it mean that “the truth will set you free” (John 8:32)? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean that “the truth will set you free” (John 8:32)? How does the truth set us free? To what 'truth' is John 8:32 referring?

www.gotquestions.org

What does it mean that “the truth will set you free” (John 8:32)?​

Jesus is the Truth (John 14:6). Knowing the Truth will set one at liberty—free from sin, free from condemnation, and free from death (Romans 6:22; 8:1–2). Jesus came to proclaim liberty to the captives (Luke 4:18). “Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God” (1 Peter 2:16, ESV).