The Joys of John

[paradox3]

John 8:12-20

Bible Gateway passage: John 8:12-20 - New English Translation

Jesus as the Light of the World - Then Jesus spoke out again, “I am the light of the world! The one who follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” So the Pharisees objected, “You testify about yourself; your testimony is not true!” Jesus answered, “Even if I...

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Jesus proclaims himself the light of the world. The one who follows will never walk in darkness but will have the light of life.

The Father is always with Him. If we know Jesus, we know the Father, too.

The Pharisees object but no one seizes Jesus. His time has not yet come.

 

[paradox3]

Here is a link to a lovely hymn. It is not based on John 8 however. It is more of a conflation of the gospels.

Google Search

The Light of the World is a powerful metaphor for Jesus.

 

[Mendalla]

Jesus response to the leaders who point out, correctly I might add, the problems of testifying on one's own behalf is interesting. Because in our modern world, some dude going around proclaiming grandiose things ("I am the light of the world") about themselves would likely get them branded egotistical or a narcissist by many. But somehow we buy Jesus justifying it by, basically, saying God supports him. Which would also be seen as egotistical.

 

[paradox3]

True @Mendalla. We don't know if Jesus actually made these grandiose claims (bread of life, light of the world and more). All we know is that these statements serve John's theology quite well.

This does not worry me. It's all part of a developing faith tradition.

 

[paradox3]

Today's lesson gives me the sense of Jesus getting bolder and the Pharisees becoming more stridently opposed. As the gap widens, Jesus is in more danger.

 

[unsafe]

This statement made by Jesus --AMP used here

12 Once more Jesus addressed the crowd. He said, “I am the Light of the world. He who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.”

So Spiritually what does this mean ----

So here again there are 2 types of Light ----one is perceived --when we are born we perceive Physical Light ----the other light is declared and imparted to us by and through Jesus

the Spiritual light Jesus speaks of refers to the Light of His Truth --(-His Word )---the Light of His Spiritual World through Revelation and the Light of eternal Spiritual life --where we reside with God eternally in His Kingdom -----

Darkness is just the absent of Light ----Your in darkness in the womb and when your born your out of the darkness into the light -----the Same goes Spiritually --

The Pharisees tell Him that his Testimony is not valid -----again Satan keeping his grip on the Pharisees thinking countering what God has said ----which is what Satan is given permission to do by God ---Keep us from God and His word ---who is Jesus ----The Pharisees have Free will same as we do to either allow Satan to control their thinking or to not allow Satan to control their thinking ----and they have made their decision to allow it ----

Jesus counters them by saying what He says is valid ----and their judgment is based on Human judgment ----Jesus says that 2 are judging --Him and His Father ----

Here we see that the Pharisees need proof of Jesus' Father ----this is human Faith at its best ---seeing is believing ---Doubting Thomas comes to mind ===

Then we see Jesus calling a Spade a Spade ---straight up ---no sugarcoating --no wavering --no going around the mountain ---and no watering down His Words ----

Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also.”

So who do they know for a god ------the god of this world ---Satan ---and he has full control over their thinking ----their plotting ---their deceptive actions ----to get Jesus so He can't preach the Good News to fellow Jews ----

 

[paradox3]

Does Jesus ever say the Pharisees are being influenced by Satan @unsafe ?

He often has harsh words for them. We know that.

 

[unsafe]

AI ----it is coming up in chapter 8

The scripture reference "You are of your father the devil" comes from John 8:44. This verse implies that those who choose to act against the truth and in a manner that opposes God are following the will of their spiritual father, the devil, who is characterized as a liar and a murderer

Satan influences our thinking ---and that goes for today ---Satan is still active in this world ---and he attacks your thinking -your mind ---

you will or loose the battle in your mind today as well

 

[paradox3]

@unsafe Oh yes, I see we have the business of the devil's children coming up soon. We will likely arrive there the day after tomorrow.

 

[GordW]

a Priest do and it is a a Big Fat False Hope that they are peddling ----No Where does it Ever say In Scripture that Ministers ==Priest etc can forgive Sins ---

Except when Jesus tells the disciples "whatever sins you forgive are forgiven and whatever sins you retain are retained" in John 20. RC doctrine around these issues is based on Scripture passages like that and a similar teaching in Matthew 16. Just because you disagree does not mean you have the only right interpretation.

Generally speaking the Reformers took a different understanding and so we remind people (through an assurance of pardon, liturgically [imo] one should not have a prayer of confession without said assurance) of the forgiveness given by God through grace.

 

[unsafe]

Except when Jesus tells the disciples "whatever sins you forgive are forgiven and whatever sins you retain are retained" in John 20.

Gordw ---Jesus gave the Disciples Power to cast out Demons -----forgive sins ---etc -Their power and authority came from Jesus Himself

WE are still in the Old Testament here ---Jesus hasn't gone to the cross yet ----so the Disciples are acting on authority and power from Jesus here ----God is giving them power and authority to do His bidding ----

You need to get out of the Old Testament GordW ---Priest today have no authority to forgive sins cause all sins are already forgiven by and through the Shed Blood of Jesus -----so now you have to receive Jesus who forgave every individuals sins ---the Priest can't forgive sins that are already forgiven --and they have no authority to do so anyway ----only the Shed blood of Jesus has the authority to do that ---and in the Old Testament which I am sure your aware of the Blood of animals only Covered Sin for a year -----

I think you Preach always from the Old Testament from what I read from your posts -----you seem to stick with the Jewish Scriptures ---and down play the New Testament Scripture or think they are not relevant and are putting words in Jesus' mouth -----correct me if I am wrong ------

So if that is the case then I understand why you post the way you do -----

 

[unsafe]

Generally speaking the Reformers took a different understanding and so we remind people (through an assurance of pardon, liturgically [imo] one should not have a prayer of confession without said assurance) of the forgiveness given by God through grace.

The reformed can think what they like ----the scripture is clear for people who understand it ----and God's Grace comes through His Saving Faith -----so without His saving Faith you cannot access His Saving Grace

 

[GordW]

Gordw ---Jesus gave the Disciples Power to cast out Demons -----forgive sins ---etc -Their power and authority came from Jesus Himself

WE are still in the Old Testament here ---Jesus hasn't gone to the cross yet ----so the Disciples are acting on authority and power from Jesus here ----God is giving them power and authority to do His bidding ----

You need to get out of the Old Testament GordW ---Priest today have no authority to forgive sins cause all sins are already forgiven by and through the Shed Blood of Jesus -----so now you have to receive Jesus who forgave every individuals sins ---the Priest can't forgive sins that are already forgiven --and they have no authority to do so anyway ----only the Shed blood of Jesus has the authority to do that ---and in the Old Testament which I am sure your aware of the Blood of animals only Covered Sin for a year -----

I think you Preach always from the Old Testament from what I read from your posts -----you seem to stick with the Jewish Scriptures ---and down play the New Testament Scripture or think they are not relevant and are putting words in Jesus' mouth -----correct me if I am wrong ------

So if that is the case then I understand why you post the way you do -----

I don't think you actually read my posts or the scripture references I give you. I think you refuse to accept that there are other interpretations of Scripture or understandings of how Scripture came to read the way it does. Jesus explicitly gives the disciples the power to forgive sins in John 20 and Matthew 16. THat is the tradition carried on in the RC tradition.

I agree that God has already offered forgiveness therefore we don't need the sacrament of reconciliation as used in the RC tradition. I disagree that the forgiveness is in some sort of blood payment. I also suggest that Jesus proclaimed a pre-existing forgiveness offered by God and that forgiveness is not tied to accepting any specific statements of faith.

 

[GordW]

The reformed can think what they like ----the scripture is clear for people who understand it ----and God's Grace comes through His Saving Faith -----so without His saving Faith you cannot access His Saving Grace

In your tradition perhaps.

 

[unsafe]

@unsafe Oh yes, I see we have the business of the devil's children coming up soon. We will likely arrive there the day after tomorrow.

And this is hard preaching cause it applies to all who have rejected Jesus as the Messiah then and in this day and age -----Satan is the god of this world by God's authority -----and until Jesus comes back and defeats Satan and locks him up --Satan remains the god of this world and has complete access to both believers and nonbelievers through their thinking ---unless one becomes possessed and then he has full access to the total person -----

God says ==put up the Shield of His Faith which quenches the fiery Darts of the evil one ----All Satan can do is infiltrate your mind -----

Your body moves to your thoughts -----first you think and then your Body will move to do what your thinking -----the body of a brain dead person lays still --

 

[unsafe]

Jesus explicitly gives the disciples the power to forgive sins in John 20 and Matthew 16. THat is the tradition carried on in the RC tradition.

Jesus only gave the Disciples the authority to forgive sins while He walked this earth -----after Jesus was resurrected He went to the locked room and there He gave the Disciples the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the Disciples were then Saved and heaven bound then At Pentecost the Holy Spirit landed on them like tongues of fire and this is the infilling of the Holy Spirit which gave the Apostles Now not Disciples the power to cast out demons ----heal the sick --speak in different languages ----and to Preach the Gospel with power and might to start the Church age--which we are still in -----they were given power and might by the Holy Spirit grow Christ's Church

The RC church is wrong on their understanding and interpretation of the scripture and they are sending their flock straight to hell ---and not batting an eye doing it----

The RC priests are not nor is any other Clergy an Apostle of Christ today ---there are no Apostles today ----

The RC Church --the Pope and all other Ministers and Priests who have not received Jesus and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit are just Humans pretending to be of God ----and have no knowledge of the true Spiritual meaning of the Scripture ---and that is proven time and time again in these John Chapters with the Pharisees ----and is the same today

It was the RC church who told their people that they go to purgatory after death---and there is no such place as purgatory in Scripture -----they made it up to suit their own agenda ----cause they were ignorant of the Spiritual true interpretation ----

The Disciples now Apostles in the New Testament which starts in Acts preach Faith in Jesus Christ for forgiveness of Sins ---they don't forgive sins themselves

AI

In the Book of Acts, the concept of forgiveness is primarily presented as a result of faith in Jesus Christ, with the apostles being conduits for God's forgiveness,
rather than directly forgiving sins themselves. Key passages include Acts 2:38, 5:31, and 10:43, which emphasize repentance, baptism, and belief in Jesus as the means to receive forgiveness from God.

So RC Priest cannot absolve sins ----and they should be ashamed of themselves for telling people they have that right ----and that is my view

 

[paradox3]

John 8:21-30

Bible Gateway passage: John 8:21-30 - New English Translation

Where Jesus Came From and Where He is Going - Then Jesus said to them again, “I am going away, and you will look for me but will die in your sin. Where I am going you cannot come.” So the Jewish leaders began to say, “Perhaps he is going to kill himself, because he says, ‘Where I am going you...

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Jesus talks of going away and the Jewish leaders do not understand.

Jesus tells them he is not from this world. Rather he comes from above and those who do not believe this will die in their sins.

Jesus says he does nothing on his own initiative but speaks just what the Father taught him. The one who sent him is with him.

Many people listen and believe in Him.

 

[paradox3]

This Gospel writer continues to stress the importance of believing in Jesus. The three other gospel writers stress different aspects of the newly developing faith tradition.

 

[unsafe]

So we see again in these verses that the Pharisees are disputing who Jesus is and again showing that the Natural man cannot discern Spiritual things -----they have no Clue as to what Jesus is Spiritually saying to them -----Why cause they are of this world --classed as a Natural man ----

There are 3 types of man described in Scripture -----Natural ---Carnal and Spiritual Here

Again Jesus calls a Spade a Spade -----No fooling around ---tells then Straight up that they are From Below -----they are worldly living people --under Satan's rule -----who is the god of this world then and now ----

23 He said to them, You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world (of this earthly order); I am not of this world.

I say ---
this statement is telling us that the Pharisees come under the Natural man order as described in Scripture ----1 Corinthians 2:14

You are of this world (of this earthly order)

Here Jesus again telling it like it is ----Folks ---but remember we are still in the Old Testament -Jesus has not gone to the Cross yet ---so this stands today if you do not believe and accept Jesus then you still have the sin nature in you ----

24 That is why I told you that you will die in (under the curse of) your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He [Whom I claim to be—if you do not adhere to, trust in, and rely on Me], you will die in your sins.

This is the real truth that all Clergy today should be Preaching in their Churches ---not the law ----

Verse 26 Jesus telling them straight truth ----26 I have much to say about you and to judge and condemn.

Again no Spiritual understanding by them
27 They did not perceive (know, understand) that He was speaking to them about the Father.

So you see here that there is really only 2 interpretations of what Jesus is saying -----

Natural man interpretation and Spiritual interpretation ------We keep hoping that there is all kinds of interpretations ---but there really is only 2 ----Worldly and Spiritual

So the last verses are Jesus actually giving them Spiritual Revelation of Him going to the Cross and them believing in who He is then ----

His says His Father never left Him alone and He did what pleased His Father ----

And for believers today ----We are never left alone God always has our back -----and when troubles come He provides a way of escape -----

 

[paradox3]

Thanks as always for sharing your perspective and worldview here @unsafe.

Personally, I don't see the dichotomy you describe between the Worldly and the Spiritual.

The differences in our respective points of view might boil down to what we believe about the nature of scripture. I don't rule out divine inspiration but I see it as a human product.

When I read John's Gospel, I always keep in mind that it is persuasive writing from an author with a high Christology. Probably as high as you will find anywhere.