Interesting conclusion.
The Joys of John
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@unsafe's words here really speak to the heart of what it means to follow Jesus! Christ's message is so much more than avoiding hell. Since we follow Jesus, it’s about who we’re running toward.
Faith invites us into a friendship. God’s perfect love casts out fear. That’s the gospel's beauty! It’s an invitation to live in God's joy.
If you’re feeling stuck in fear, ask yourself what it would look like to follow Jesus out of love. Because that’s where transformation happens.
Let’s all walk together in faith. Let’s all grow in understanding. God's arms are open wide. He’s calling us to live boldly in his love. Let’s dive into that kind of faith!
Oh ye, of little understanding of what I believe...also unsafe.
But carry on.....
Do you think some may believe that way?
God’s perfect love drives out fear. When fear comes knocking, let's all choose to stand firm in faith, knowing we’re held by a God who's bigger than anything we’re facing
Maybe God thought some fear could also keep us safe?
Fear isn't from God, who is love. His perfect love drives out fear and invites us into a life of boldness. God empowers us with his Spirit, filling us with love. His love frees us to walk in faith.
God's love assures us that we don't have to live in fear. He's with us, guiding us. What a gift to rest in the truth that his love breaks every chain and calls us to a life of courage!
Where does fear come from IYO?
unsafe
Well-Known Member
YA --I did say you in my post but wasn't meaning you yourself ---I was meaning anyone in general who would follow Christ to stay out of Hell ---so my bad for making it sound like I was directing my statement to you personally -----should have said People who would follow ----
I am sure there may be people that think they came to Christ to stay out of Hell ---back in the day when most so called Ministers were focused on preaching the gospel of fire and brimstone ----these Ministers were not true Christians themselves for using Satan's Fear to gain souls ==Wolves in Sheeps clothing I say
AI
Jonathan Edwards is a well-known "fire and brimstone" preacher, particularly for his famous sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God". He, along with George Whitefield, is associated with the First Great Awakening. These preachers used dramatic language and imagery of divine wrath and punishment to inspire repentance and conversion.
I say ---Now today this is just as bad as most Ministers are not Saved themselves and are preaching their own watered down ---sugar coated Gospel telling people as long as they
serve their neighbour ---go to church on Sunday ---pray a bit ---serve in the soup kitchen and sing in the quire ---that God's love will save them in the end -----do good works and your heaven bound ---
So one used fear to save ---the other God's love to save ---both are False Doctrine ---neither one focuses on Jesus and His accomplishments and what He endured to be hung on a cross for us all ----
So both ways of preaching here are very bad for the people in the pews ---they are being deceived and being fed False Doctrine -----and the Ministers who claim to be Christians and who are preaching False Doctrine should be ashamed of themselves -----and that is my view
Fear comes from not knowing what's out there and feeling like we’re alone. It's a natural feeling that makes it hard for us to trust God. But we don’t have to face it by ourselves. When we give our fears to God, we start to feel his love, which helps us move past that fear.
What about you, Waterfall? How does fear show up in your life? Where do you think it comes from?
paradox3
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Hey everyone! Great discussion yesterday but let's move along in the text.
John 6:66-71
www.biblegateway.com
Many disciples quit following Jesus and no longer accompany Him.
Jesus addresses the twelve and Peter reassures Him they will remain.
"Didn't I choose you?" asks Jesus. "Yet one of you is the devil." The gospel writer explains that Jesus already knew that Judas would betray Him.
John 6:66-71
Bible Gateway passage: John 6:66-71 - New English Translation
Peter’s Confession - After this many of his disciples quit following him and did not accompany him any longer. So Jesus said to the twelve, “You don’t want to go away too, do you?” Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe...
Many disciples quit following Jesus and no longer accompany Him.
Jesus addresses the twelve and Peter reassures Him they will remain.
"Didn't I choose you?" asks Jesus. "Yet one of you is the devil." The gospel writer explains that Jesus already knew that Judas would betray Him.
paradox3
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Sure sounds like Jesus is accepting the inevitability of what is going to happen. Otherwise, couldn't He have just kicked Judas out?
What do you think about those who stop accompanying Him? Could it be they have just had enough traipsing around the countryside? Perhaps they return to their regular lives transformed by their encounter with the Holy One of God.
What do you think about those who stop accompanying Him? Could it be they have just had enough traipsing around the countryside? Perhaps they return to their regular lives transformed by their encounter with the Holy One of God.
Mendalla
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Worst foreshadowing ever. I mean, announcing what you are foreshadowing is a tad ... unsubtle. But that's bringing a writer's perspective and not really relevant to what John is doing here.
Or they realized Jesus was not what they were looking (i.e. a Messiah who would free them from the foreign conquerors) and went looking for other Messiahs.
Peter steps up and says, “Lord, where else would we go? You have the words of eternal life.” That kind of faith really pushes us forward.Hey everyone! Great discussion yesterday but let's move along in the text.
John 6:66-71
Bible Gateway passage: John 6:66-71 - New English Translation
Peter’s Confession - After this many of his disciples quit following him and did not accompany him any longer. So Jesus said to the twelve, “You don’t want to go away too, do you?” Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe...
Many disciples quit following Jesus and no longer accompany Him.
Jesus addresses the twelve and Peter reassures Him they will remain.
"Didn't I choose you?" asks Jesus. "Yet one of you is the devil." The gospel writer explains that Jesus already knew that Judas would betray Him.
When Jesus asks, “Didn’t I choose you?” it reminds us that Jesus' love doesn’t change.
As people on a mission, we must support each other. We’re called to love. Let’s be Peter and hold tight to Jesus, and let’s also be Jesus and share grace.
Think about someone in your life who needs to hear those words of eternal life today. Let’s spread some hope in a world that needs it
paradox3
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Or they might have had enough of all this reform business Jesus was proposing. And reverted back to the traditional Judaism of their tribe.
unsafe
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Those Disciples could not interpret the symbolic Meaning of what Jesus was saying they interpreted in a literal sense and were so baffled and confused by what He was saying and probably thought He was crazy and so they left and stopped following Him ----
They were whitewashed on the outside but filthy on the inside ------Their influence was 666 without the colon -
This is important for us to get ----Our cleansing doesn't start on the outside and enter to our inside ----Our Cleansing Starts on the inside and spills outward to cleanse us on the outside --
Peter gets it ---he says -----so if we leave --who would we go to ? you are our only hope for eternal life -----He recognizes Jesus as Lord ----
This is truly a God revealed revelation that Peter is having here ---
This is true Faith --------spilling out of and being Confessed here by Peter ----
Peter is putting Christ's Faith in action by speaking out what he really and truly Believes in his heart ----
When we have total confidence in something or someone --We will speak it out loud -----
Peter is now Trusting Jesus as his Saviour and his only hope for eternal life -----
This is the Belief that Saves ------even when you don't see the end result yet --that is your eternal life -------you Believe in your heart it will come to pass ---
With all the Disciples leaving --it may look like the Pharisees are winning to keep Jesus from preaching His New Covenant ---but are they really winning ? NO
With these many Disciples leaving this is a showing of the first great apostasy in Jesus' Ministry ----as He is left with only the 12 ----
The question is --Should a True Christian Church be encouraging people to follow Jesus who only want to follow Him for material gain ---that is for what Jesus can provide for them -----They follow for selfish reasons not because they Agape Him ---
God talks about pruning the branches of the Vine ----so that the true branches will bear more fruit and not be chocked by the weeds -----the problem today is Most who Preach are the weeds stifling the other branches of the Vine ---
Jesus tells the 12 that He did not choose them ----but that Satan dwells among them to betray Him ---God the Father chose the 12 -----and put Satan in the mix ----so He could get His Son to the Cross -----all planned ---all executed perfectly by the Father ----
This is so important ---as it shows so clearly that God the Father had a plan in place and he had already chosen His players ---Sinners and Saints ----and put them in their positions before He created this World -and His Plan Folks is still in full play ----till He ends it ----
People of True Faith will not abandon Jesus ----People who abandon Jesus never had God's true Faith in them in the first place ----
Many can say ---OH I was a Christian but I left Christianity ----they never were True Christians in the first place ----their Christianity was in the head --not their heart ------just like the Disciples who left Jesus -----some may have returned later on accepting the Father drawing but that we can only speculate on as this scripture doesn't give us any info on them after they leave ----
paradox3
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Hmm @unsafe. "Whitewashed on the outside and filthy on the inside" is the way Jesus described the Pharisees. Did he ever say this description fit all his fellow Jews? I don:t think he did.
Please note in John 6:12, Jesus says, "Didn't I choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is the devil?" I contend that Jesus did, in fact, choose the 12 disciples.
Granted at least one of the synoptics has Him praying for discernment in making his selections.
Please note in John 6:12, Jesus says, "Didn't I choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is the devil?" I contend that Jesus did, in fact, choose the 12 disciples.
Granted at least one of the synoptics has Him praying for discernment in making his selections.
unsafe
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Remember these are so called Disciples following Jesus ----this is a certain group of Jews who claim to be Jesus' Disciples ------
But Well Really -------this fits all people today ----who think they are followers of Christ but are really not --they want to use the word Christian to impress but their hearts are far from Jesus ----they appear to others as clean --Holy ---on the outside but are not clean on the inside ---they still have that Sin nature on the inside -----
-The Disciple here were False Disciples they wanted the appearance of being a follower of Christ on the outside but their motives on the insider were far from clean and Holy ---just the the Pharisees were false prophets ===appearing to be Holy on the outside but defiled on the inside -----
AI
The phrase "whitewashed on the outside, filthy on the inside" is a metaphorical expression, often found in religious contexts, particularly in the Bible.
It represents a stark contrast between outward appearances and inner reality, suggesting a deceptive facade of righteousness or goodness where true character is hidden.
This imagery highlights the importance of not being misled by superficiality and emphasizes the need to examine the heart and motivations behind one's actions, rather than simply focusing on external appearances.
GordW
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Or the Gospel writer said that and put the words in Jesus' mouth. Remember the John has been said to be the Gospel which is most susceptible to be used in anti-Semitic ways (I suspect that the fact it was written later, after the divisions between Jewish folk who saw Jesus as Messiah and Jewish folk who did not share that conviction were deepening along with the growth of the Gentile Christian population contribute to that)
unsafe
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Jesus obeyed His Father Will ------Jesus did nothing on His own -------His Father chose
the disciple and Jesus called them ----
John 5:19 AMPC
So Jesus answered them by saying, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, the Son is able to do nothing of Himself (of His own accord); but He is able to do only what He sees the Father doing, for whatever the Father does is what the Son does in the same way [in His turn].
In luke 6 ---Jesus goes and Prays to His Father all night the next morning the Disciples are called by Jesus -----
The Twelve Apostles
12 One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.13 When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: