Sort of what I'm saying....it sounds like Judas idea....not God's.Judas was part of God's plan ----Judas had an evil heart and Judas allowed Satan to enter himself
Maybe this will help you
What does “Satan entered into him” mean regarding Judas in John 13:27?
What does “Satan entered into him” mean regarding Judas in John 13:27? | GotQuestions.org
What does “Satan entered into him” mean regarding Judas? What is the meaning of John 13:27?www.gotquestions.org
In the broader biblical context, Judas’ betrayal fulfills Old Testament prophecy: “Even my close friend, someone I trusted, one who shared my bread, has turned against me” (Psalm 41:9; cf. John 13:18).
Although God sovereignly orchestrated the events leading to Judas’ betrayal,
Judas remains morally responsible for his vile and horrifying actions: “Satan could not have entered into him had he not granted him admission. Had he been willing to say ‘No’ to the adversary, all of his Master’s intercessory power was available to him there and then to strengthen him”
The Joys of John
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Share that understanding, and I hold that Jesus' death having been volitional is highly significant to the fulfillment of God's redemptive plan
How about Deuteronomy 12:31, and Jeremiah 7:31
BetteTheRed
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Really !!!!!!! ---------OH MY LAND !
That would make the whole Bible a big fat FARCE -----in my view ----The writer telling Jesus what to say -------HOLY COW !!!!!!!-----
Do you Preach that to your congregation ? ---WOW !
I think you are very unaware of alternate theological views to your own. In the wider Christian church, particularly in the more mainstream/liberal-progressive, these beliefs are absolutely common.
It's simply a totally different approach to yours, which doesn't make it bad. We joke in bible study on Wednesday mornings (and this is not a theologically illiterate crowd; this morning, it included four ministers, three of them retired), that if there are 10 of us gathered, there's AT LEAST 11 opinions on everything.
This historical/contextual/critical approach means that although we don't take scripture literally, we do take it very seriously. There was hot discussion around the Road to Emmaus story this morning.
unsafe
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Yes you and Jabius are right here paradox3 ---Jesus chose the Disciples under His Father authority --so my bad ----
AI
Yes, in Christian theology, Jesus choosing his disciples is understood to be done under the authority of God the Father.
Jesus's authority is derived from and exercised in accordance with the Father's will. This choice of the twelve apostles, along with the authority they were given, is a demonstration of Jesus's role as the Son, who is both distinct from and united with the Father.
Jesus's Authority is Derived from the Father:
The Bible emphasizes that Jesus's authority comes from God the Father. For example, Matthew 28:18 states, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me," implying that this authority is bestowed by the Father.
This Choice is in Accordance with the Father's Will:
Jesus's actions, including the selection of his disciples, are always presented as being in accordance with the Father's will. He fulfills the Father's plan and carries out the Father's purpose.
Unity in the Trinity:
This understanding of Jesus's authority is rooted in the concept of the Trinity, where the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct yet united in their divine nature and actions. Jesus's choice of disciples, therefore, is a manifestation of this unity and the shared authority within the Trinity.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Deuteronomy 12:31 forbids Israelites from worshiping the Lord in the way the pagan nations worshipped their gods. Specifically, it prohibits the practice of burning children as sacrifices, which the Lord finds abhorrent. This verse emphasizes that God's people should not engage in the detestable practices associated with the gods of other nations.
Jeremiah 7:31
is also sacrifices for other god's
31 And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of Ben-hinnom [son of Hinnom], to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire [in honor of Molech, the fire god]—which I did not command, nor did it come into My mind or heart.
unsafe
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Do you think people can achieve having a Christ like Character without Christ indwelling in them ?----
paradox3
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I don't see why not.
But in order to have a useful discussion, we might need agree on what we mean by the term. Think that would be easily achieved with this gang?
unsafe
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Well I am sure we would have 2 different views on what having a Christ like character means ---I say that cause there would be an intellectual worldly view and a spiritual view ------right---
One would be Mimicking Jesus' Christ like Character through our own effort and the other would be a cultivated Christ Like Character through a personal relationship with Jesus ------
2 different perspectives here ----
paradox3
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We probably have as many perspectives on this thread as we have people.
paradox3
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John 7:1-13
www.biblegateway.com
Now we come to a story about different reactions to Jesus. How fitting for this particular thread!
It is time for the feast of Shelters. Jesus attends in secret because the Jewish leaders want to kill him.
His brothers challenge him to demonstrate what he can do but they doubt him. The crowds grumble about him.
Some say, "He is a good man." Others say, "He deceives the common people." But no one speaks openly for fear of the Jewish leaders.
Bible Gateway passage: John 7:1-13 - New English Translation
The Feast of Shelters - After this Jesus traveled throughout Galilee. He stayed out of Judea because the Jewish leaders wanted to kill him. Now the Jewish Feast of Shelters was near. So Jesus’ brothers advised him, “Leave here and go to Judea so your disciples may see your miracles that you are...
Now we come to a story about different reactions to Jesus. How fitting for this particular thread!
It is time for the feast of Shelters. Jesus attends in secret because the Jewish leaders want to kill him.
His brothers challenge him to demonstrate what he can do but they doubt him. The crowds grumble about him.
Some say, "He is a good man." Others say, "He deceives the common people." But no one speaks openly for fear of the Jewish leaders.
paradox3
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This story reminds us that Jesus is still practicing his Jewish faith. He travels to Jerusalem for one of the three important pilgrimage festivals. He goes in secret but he still goes.
The 3 festivals are: Shelters (Tabernacles), Passover and Pentecost.
But he is clearly running into opposition from the Jewish leaders and he is endangering himself.
Who are the brothers of Jesus in this story, do you think? His biological brothers? Half brothers? Cousins or something else?
The 3 festivals are: Shelters (Tabernacles), Passover and Pentecost.
But he is clearly running into opposition from the Jewish leaders and he is endangering himself.
Who are the brothers of Jesus in this story, do you think? His biological brothers? Half brothers? Cousins or something else?
At least
Jesus sticks to Jewish traditions, even when facing tough challenges. He's teaching us what it means to stay faithful in a messed-up world.
And then there are his brothers! Their mix of doubt and family issues adds a relatable twist to his story.
What do you think about how this passage motivates us to push on in our mission, even when it feels risky?
paradox3
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This passage has me thinking about how I witness for my faith. But this is kind of an offshoot of the text so I won't get into it just yet. Maybe at the end of today.
Interesting that my thinking is going in a few different directions. Hmm ... Could this be because the reading is completely new to me today?
Interesting that my thinking is going in a few different directions. Hmm ... Could this be because the reading is completely new to me today?
unsafe
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So we see in the first verse of today's Scripture that Jesus still has to be careful as to where He goes to avoid the ones trying to kill Him ---as the time has not come for that yet
This tells us that God has a right time for everything to take place -----and Jesus stays on a Zig Zag path to avoid His enemies
His brothers do not believe in who Jesus is and they are telling Him to go to Judea ------and Jesus knows that he must avoid going there -----so He says to them ----any time is right for you----as the world doesn't hate you ----
Jesus coming has brought a rebuke of the way the world lives and has denounced it wicked --evil ways ---
Jesus does go but without being noticed publicly ---- the Jewish leaders diligently seeking Him ---
I say -----Not a Nice way to have to spend your time on this earth ---constantly looking over your shoulder to avoid your enemy -----
We see some think Jesus is a good man and others think He is a deceiver ----Jesus came to divide not to bring peace ----
So you can see that His Brothers thought that Jesus' success was from Him being seen Publicly for what He does ---what signs and wonders He can conjure up -----so seeing is believing ---
Maybe the Brothers Motive was to sarcastically ridicule Jesus by their comments to Him ?
verses 3 and 4
3 Jesus’ brothers said to him, “Leave Galilee and go to Judea, so that your disciples there may see the works you do.
4 No one who wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you are doing these things, show yourself to the world.”
I say -----The Brothers believed that Jesus could do supernatural things but that He was not their Spiritual Messiah ---
There was much grumbling going on with the people who wanted Him to fulfil their wishes of what they wanted ----
This is the way we humans work ----we want what we want and we want it to happen when we want it to happen ---We don't want to wait for God's time -----
This tells us that God has a right time for everything to take place -----and Jesus stays on a Zig Zag path to avoid His enemies
His brothers do not believe in who Jesus is and they are telling Him to go to Judea ------and Jesus knows that he must avoid going there -----so He says to them ----any time is right for you----as the world doesn't hate you ----
Jesus coming has brought a rebuke of the way the world lives and has denounced it wicked --evil ways ---
Jesus does go but without being noticed publicly ---- the Jewish leaders diligently seeking Him ---
I say -----Not a Nice way to have to spend your time on this earth ---constantly looking over your shoulder to avoid your enemy -----
We see some think Jesus is a good man and others think He is a deceiver ----Jesus came to divide not to bring peace ----
So you can see that His Brothers thought that Jesus' success was from Him being seen Publicly for what He does ---what signs and wonders He can conjure up -----so seeing is believing ---
Maybe the Brothers Motive was to sarcastically ridicule Jesus by their comments to Him ?
verses 3 and 4
3 Jesus’ brothers said to him, “Leave Galilee and go to Judea, so that your disciples there may see the works you do.
4 No one who wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you are doing these things, show yourself to the world.”
I say -----The Brothers believed that Jesus could do supernatural things but that He was not their Spiritual Messiah ---
There was much grumbling going on with the people who wanted Him to fulfil their wishes of what they wanted ----
This is the way we humans work ----we want what we want and we want it to happen when we want it to happen ---We don't want to wait for God's time -----
GordW
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This is on of the problems with AI on a variety of issues....since it is largely built by crawling through what is online the loudest voices may skew what AI spits back out. (and anyway this has little to do with John's Gospel)Does AI understand there is no one single "Christian theology"?
Some Christians believe this. Some Christians believe that. Always the best way to look at theological questions.
GordW
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In which case many fail the test. Christian Nationalists in particular
GordW
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Psalm 41 not likely a prophecy as first written and understood. Used as such by early Christian writers mining their Scripture to help understand what had happened in JEsus' life death and resurrection. The same could be said about many of the prophecies Jesus supposedly 'fulfilled'.Judas was part of God's plan ----Judas had an evil heart and Judas allowed Satan to enter himself
Maybe this will help you
What does “Satan entered into him” mean regarding Judas in John 13:27?
What does “Satan entered into him” mean regarding Judas in John 13:27? | GotQuestions.org
What does “Satan entered into him” mean regarding Judas? What is the meaning of John 13:27?www.gotquestions.org
In the broader biblical context, Judas’ betrayal fulfills Old Testament prophecy: “Even my close friend, someone I trusted, one who shared my bread, has turned against me” (Psalm 41:9; cf. John 13:18).
Although God sovereignly orchestrated the events leading to Judas’ betrayal,
Judas remains morally responsible for his vile and horrifying actions: “Satan could not have entered into him had he not granted him admission. Had he been willing to say ‘No’ to the adversary, all of his Master’s intercessory power was available to him there and then to strengthen him”
