The Christian Downfall ---The Error Of Balaam

[RitaTG]

Well said revjohn ..... that pretty much expresses what I was thinking...
Regards
Rita

 

[Delightful Life]

neet, it seems that Balaam is faithful to his g_d?

"
7.So the elders of Moab and the elders of Midian went, with magic charms in their hands, and they came to Balaam and conveyed Balak's message to him.
8. He said to them, "Lodge here for the night, and I will give you an answer when the Lord speaks to me." So the Moabite nobles stayed with Balaam.
9. God came to Balaam and said, "Who are these men with you?"
10. Balaam said to God, "Balak the son of Zippor the king of Moab has sent [them] to me, [saying]:
11. "Behold the people coming out of Egypt, a nation, has covered the 'eye' of the earth. Come and curse them for me, perhaps I will be able to fight against them and drive them out."
12. God said to Balaam, "You shall not go with them! You shall not curse the people because they are blessed."
13. When Balaam arose in the morning, he said to Balak's nobles, "Return to your country, for the Lord has refused to let me go with you."
14. Moab's nobles arose and came to Balak and said, "Balaam refuses to come with us."
15. So Balak continued to send dignitaries, more and higher in rank than these.
16. They came to Balaam and said to him, "So said Balak the son of Zippor, 'Please do not hesitate to come to me.
17. For I will honor you greatly and do whatever you tell me to do. So please come and curse this people for me.'"
18. Balaam answered and said to Balak's servants, "Even if Balak gives me a house full of silver and gold, I cannot do anything small or great that would transgress the word of the Lord, my God.
19. Now, you too, please remain here overnight, and I will know what the Lord will continue to speak with me."
20. God came to Balaam at night and said to him, "If these men have come to call for you, arise and go with them, but the word I speak to you-that you shall do."

--Parshat Chukat-Balak Chapter 22

much hilarity ensues -- authors so mistreat their characters?
its strange why Moab wanted the Israelites dealt with via cursing -- it seemed he was afraid of their bloodthirsty & genocidal reputation & that they'd eat his people to starvation?

Its the Game of Thrones all over again

 

[Jaebius]

The thing is this everyone - we all just think differently is all. I believe God's word. (Ok - who wants to say it next?)

 

[unsafe]

For those intrested -------- this is worth the watch -----hopes this works ----

----this gives the errors ------
The Errors of Balaam - Chuck Missler


This is about Balaam ---there are 2 parts to this ----

Part 1 ----

Part 2----

 

[unsafe]

This is also worth the read for those interested-----http://www.truebiblecode.com/understanding25.html

The 1st Blood Sacrifice Ever Made

 

[revsdd]

Hi revsdd

I don't admit that my belief is wrong because that is my belief -----you believe I am wrong and that is your belief -----who is right and who is wrong is not the issue in my book ----- We all have different views and beliefs ------I hold true to my beliefs -----as do you is all ---Plus we think different ----- what you think of me matters not to me -----

Your quote --- And if you can't admit the possibility that you might be in error, that's a sign of a significant spiritual issue that you seriously need to deal with

I must have hit a nerve with you revsdd ----but if it makes you feel like a great person to say those things to someone just because they didn't bow down to your request -----then I ask who has the greater Spiritual Issue -----

I make no claim whatsoever to being "a great person." Nor did I ever ask you to admit that you were wrong. You suggested much earlier in the thread that I could be in error. I freely admitted that I could be in error. I asked you to make the same admission - that you COULD BE in error. Your refusal to admit the possibility that you COULD BE in error is arrogance, which is a significant spiritual issue.

But - to the real point again. Show me where, in the Bible, it says that the problem with Cain's sacrifice was that it was not a blood sacrifice. Show me where, in the Bible, it says that Cain was without faith. Or, simply acknowledge that you're going beyond what the Bible says and you're making statements based on your interpretations of and assumptions about the biblical text rather than citing the Bible itself. Is that so hard? And this isn't just a matter of "we think different is all." You have repeatedly on the old site challenged people for interpreting Scripture, saying you believe the Word of God and nothing else. Now you're doing the very same thing (interpreting the Bible rather than simply taking it at face value) and you've been caught doing it in a way you can't deny, since you cannot offer a biblical verse supporting your claim about Cain's sacrifice. So I'd like to see you admit that you sometimes go beyond what the Bible says in taking your positions. That would be honest.

 

[airclean33]

My belief is that any human can make a mistake.For me to see one Christain attack another is a mistake.When reading what Cain offered ----


Gen 4:3 In the course of time Cain brought to the LORD an offering of the fruit of the ground

Gen 4:4 and Abel brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering,

Gen 4:5 but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell.

Gen 4:6 The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your countenance fallen?

Gen 4:7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is couching at the door; its desire is for you, but you must master it."




It seems we must deside what it was that Cain had done.God said what he had done was not accepted. So try again that it would be. At least thats how I read it. airclean33

 

[revsdd]

At least thats how I read it. airclean33

Which is the point. The story has to be interpreted. It depends on how you read it. There is no absolute right or wrong, at least not one that can be found in the text itself.

And no one has attacked anyone. I have pointed put that unsafe is being inconsistent in saying the she relies only on the Word of God when she clearly has gone beyond it to interpret the text. I have pointed out that she's displaying arrogance when she refuses to acknowledge even the possibility that her interpretation might be in error. I'm pointing out that she's being hypocritical because when others have interpreted the biblical text, she's accused them of being worldly minded,or of not being "born again" by which I think she means not a Christian, and she's insisted that she only relies on the Word of God (her continual references to commentaries and Charles Stanley sermons notwithstanding) etc., etc. None of that is an attack. It is, however, admittedly a challenge.

 

[Waterfall]

My belief is that any human can make a mistake.For me to see one Christain attack another is a mistake.

Is it an attack, or merely correction and a chance to dig deeper into the scriptures in order to understand?

 

[airclean33]

Which is the point. The story has to be interpreted. It depends on how you read it. There is no absolute right or wrong, at least not one that can be found in the text itself.

And no one has attacked anyone. I have pointed put that unsafe is being inconsistent in saying the she relies only on the Word of God when she clearly has gone beyond it to interpret the text. I have pointed out that she's displaying arrogance when she refuses to acknowledge even the possibility that her interpretation might be in error. I'm pointing out that she's being hypocritical because when others have interpreted the biblical text, she's accused them of being worldly minded,or of not being "born again" by which I think she means not a Christian, and she's insisted that she only relies on the Word of God (her continual references to commentaries and Charles Stanley sermons notwithstanding) etc., etc. None of that is an attack. It is, however, admittedly a challenge.

Hi revsdd --I have read the thread rev. I have noted Rev John said Cain did not bring his best. Which is also wrong. But noted you did not ask him to say he was wrong. Why as GODS word don't said for sure?

 

[airclean33]

Is it an attack, or merely correction and a chance to dig deeper into the scriptures in order to understand?

Hi waterfall --This really seems to me to be a very good point. I understand Christains can jump at things . Myself included . Thanks for posting this Waterfall. God Bless. airclean33

 

[revsdd]

Hi revsdd --I have read the thread rev. I have noted Rev John said Cain did not bring his best. Which is also wrong. But noted you did not ask him to say he was wrong. Why as GODS word don't said for sure?

I didn't ask unsafe to say she was wrong. I asked her to admit to the possibility that she was wrong. The comment was directed to her alone because she made an accusation that I was setting myself up as "great" and that I need to accept that I could be in error. Which I willingly do. I still await her admission that she made an interpretation of the Bible which has no direct textual support, and that she might be wrong. I don't expect that from her. She may well simply choose not to engage the thread, or she may try to deflect by doing everything but either admit to the possibility of error or providing a direct biblical quote (in or out of context; on this I'll settle for either) that supports her position on either Cain's sacrifice or Cain's faith. If I may put it more bluntly, I'm sick and tired of her "holier than thou" attitude and I want to see some humility displayed - just admitting that there's no biblical support for her position and that, therefore, her interpretation of the story might be in error. If thete is no humility, thete is arrogance; if thete is arrogance, there is a spiritual issue she needs to deal with.

 

[RitaTG]

revsdd ..... unfortunately you will get used to how unsafe engages (or not) in dialogue....
I enjoyed your viewpoints regarding Balaam along with revjohn's comments...
That has given me quite a bit to think about....
Thank you
Rita

 

[airclean33]

Hi revsdd---I myself believe it is good for Christains to talk and give there understanding of GODS Word. As a Christian, I also understand it is sometimes hard to look back an think . I may have got that wrong. Because we have GOD with us , we sometimes forget. Only He That is GOD" don't make mistakes. The rest of us, are just sinners , saved by Grace. We are a work in progress. Thanks Rev for your honest posts. God Bless--airclean33

 

[unsafe]

Hi revsdd --------your quote I have pointed put that unsafe is being inconsistent in saying the she relies only on the Word of God when she clearly has gone beyond it to interpret the text. I have pointed out that she's displaying arrogance when she refuses to acknowledge even the possibility that her interpretation might be in error. I'm pointing out that she's being hypocritical because when others have interpreted the biblical text, she's accused them of being worldly minded,or of not being "born again" by which I think she means not a Christian, and she's insisted that she only relies on the Word of God (her continual references to commentaries and Charles Stanley sermons notwithstanding) etc., etc. None of that is an attack. It is, however, admittedly a challenge.

You are entitled to your opinion of me that is your right ------It doesn't affect me in any way or my beliefs -----I believe what I posted ---Period -----you prove to me that Cain's error was not because he didn't bring the right product to worship God and that he brought the fruit in Faith ---He brought his works not Faith this is my belief -----

If you read this article you will read what i have been saying -----


Pre Law Worship ------http://www.biblecourses.com/English/en_lessons/EN_200303_03.pdf

This article says not only did Abel offer a animal he offered the fat of his first flocks ------It states that Cain offerd the fruit but SOME ---NOTICE THIS WORD ---SOME ---say----So --NOT ALL SAY ---- it was not what he offered but it was his attitude toward his offering -------and it says Able's offering was brought by Faith so this implies Cain's was not brought by Faith ------

Read the article -------

My belief is that if Cain had of brought the right thing to the the table of God ---God would have excepted it -----this is my belief Period -----what you believe is up to you ------but God had a plan and Cain was not suppose to bring the right product and all this was suppose to be the way it was so that God could continue with His Plan to bring His Son here -----and that is my belief also ---

 

[revsdd]

What is it that you want me to prove, since I'm not making any claim about why Cain's sacrifice was rejected. I don't have to prove something that I'm NOT claiming. I'm simply saying that the Bible doesn't tell us why Cain's sacrifice wasn't accepted. The proof of that is in the Bible and in what the Bible does not say. So I'm saying you're making an interpretation of the text which goes far beyond what the text says. I'm asking you for scriptural support for what you say - you offer me not a verse (just a wee single verse) from the Bible, but rather an article. Again - where, in the Bible, does it say that Cain's sacrifice was rejected because it was not a blood sacrifice and where, in the Bible, does it say that Cain was without faith. Quit the deflection and give me the scriptural quote, since you always claim to stand on the word of God. Not your interpretation, not a commentator's interpretation. Show me where the BIBLE says it. Or, admit that you've gone beyond the text into interpretation.

 

[chansen]

In this time of changing websites, changing usernames, changing avatars and changing management, unsafe's bible-based arrogance is the one constant we can hold on to.

I continue to be amazed by the patience shown by some. That's impressive. I don't have that skill.

 

[revsdd]

revsdd ..... unfortunately you will get used to how unsafe engages (or not) in dialogue....
I enjoyed your viewpoints regarding Balaam along with revjohn's comments...
That has given me quite a bit to think about....
Thank you
Rita

Rita, I'm very used to it. You just don't know my snazzy new user name. On the old site, I was Rev. Steven Davis.

 

[revjohn]

I have noted Rev John said Cain did not bring his best. Which is also wrong.

It may well be.

I have, in articulating the point looked at the scripture and discerned clues and I have made that evident in the thread.

If you know it to be wrong show me my error.

Why as GODS word don't said for sure?

God does not directly address the reason why Cain's offering is rejected. The text of the narrative does. The same narrative which tells us that God regarded Abel's offering and disregarded Cain's is the one which tells us that Cain only brought some and Abel brought the fat of his firstlings.

For the record, the narrative of scripture talks about the "fat of the land" when referring to the first fruits of the harvest.

Cain did not bring the first fruits he brought some.

That fat and first would be applied to Abel's offering does not mean it is animal offerings that God wants (since there had been no command or even suggestion for sacrifices at this point in the narrative) it means that God regards the best as suitable sacrifice. The fact that the narrative does not include fat or first in describing Cain's sacrifice is actually very telling.

 

[unsafe]

Hi revsdd your Quote ---- What is it that you want me to prove,----you prove to me that Cain's error was not because he didn't bring the right product to worship God and that he brought the fruit in Faith ---


Understand this---- God had cursed the ground after Adam screwed up ---Why would God accept an offering from what He cursed -----and God is omnipresent and He would have already known Cain's heart and where he stood with God in --attitude ---respect and obedience ------


This is what Genesis 4 says about Able -----

Genesis 4:4-5Good News Translation (GNT)

4 (A)Then Abel brought the first lamb born to one of his sheep, killed it, and gave the best parts of it as an offering. TheLordwas pleased with Abel and his offering,5 but he rejected Cain and his offering. Cain became furious, and he scowled in anger.

Genesis 4:4-5Good News Translation (GNT)
4 (A)Then Abel brought the first lamb born to one of his sheep, killed it, and gave the best parts of it as an offering. TheLord was pleased with Abel and his offering,5 but he rejected Cain and his offering. Cain became furious, and he scowled in anger.


So here you have that 2 scriptures saying what Abel did ----

Here is the Amplified Version with A FOOT NOTE ----and Cain it says had no regard or respect -----so where is his Faith


Genesis 4:4-5Amplified Bible (AMP)

4 And Abel brought of the firstborn of his flock and of the fat portions. And the Lord had respectandregard for Abel and for his offering,(A)

5 But for[a]Cain and his offering He had no respect or regard. So Cain was exceedingly angryand indignant, and he looked sad and depressed.


Footnotes:

1. Genesis 4:5In bringing the offering he did, Cain denied that he was a sinful creature under the sentence of divine condemnation. He insisted on approaching God on the ground of personal worthiness. Instead of accepting God’s way, he offered to God the fruits of the ground which God had cursed. He presented the product of his own toil, the work of his own hands, and God refused to receive it (Arthur W. Pink,Gleanings in Genesis).