Tar Sands

[Jaebius]

@Pr. Jae At this point - recycle and reuse all plastic. Any materials we can, actually - reuse them. No new plastic. New plastic should be banned. There's glass, too.

Ok, let me try that for a week (not buying any new plastics).

 

[ChemGal]

Just google "products made from oil".....it's alot more than just plastics.

Lots, it's where the starting materials for many syntheses come from.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Lots, it's where the starting materials for many syntheses come from.

Can they use recycled plastics for syntheses, too?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Ok, let me try that for a week (not buying any new plastics).

It's hard. I tried and forgot how much is actually plastic. Right down to the wrapping on food. Or, even the food, if you eat processed cheese.

 

[ChemGal]

Can they use recycled plastics for syntheses, too?

Plastics are large polymers, starting materials are generally small molecules.

 

[ChemGal]

It's hard. I tried and forgot how much is actually plastic. Right down to the wrapping on food. Or, even the food, if you eat processed cheese.

You're joking about the cheese, right?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

No. I know they say it doesn't contain plastic but it sure feels like it does after you eat it. It leaves a plastic aftertaste in your mouth and sits like a lump in your stomach. Each slice is wrapped in plastic, at any rate, and that's a waste. It's bad, imo. But I have bought it when broke. I think it secretly contains a bit of silicone.

 

[ChemGal]

The hydrocarbons in crude oil are mostly alkanes, cycloalkanes and various aromatic hydrocarbons while the other organic compounds contain nitrogen, oxygen and sulfur, and trace amounts of metals such as iron, nickel, copper and vanadium. The exact molecular composition varies widely from formation to formation but the proportion of chemical elements vary over fairly narrow limits as follows

Petroleum is also the raw material for many chemical products, including pharmaceuticals, solvents, fertilizers, pesticides, and plastics; the 16 percent not used for energy production is converted into these other materials.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum

I like this link for the uses:
http://www.technologystudent.com/prddes1/plasty1.html

If we stopped the oil industry, there would be massive shortages in the chemistry industry, the pharmaceutical industry, etc.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Plastics are large polymers, starting materials are generally small molecules.

Can they break it down in to small molecules...recycled plastic that is? if not, limiting them to specific necessary uses like that might be a good idea. Otherwise, ban them.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

You don't think more harm than good will be done by banning new plastic?
What about plastics made from other starting materials?

True. Corn. other plant based oils. Okay...so ban petroleum based non-biodegradable new plastic.

 

[ChemGal]

Can they break it down in to small molecules...recycled plastic that is? if not, limiting them to specific necessary uses like that might be a good idea. Otherwise, ban them.

Yes, although it would be difficult if not impossible to get the same original starting materials from them. I'm not 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure recycling plastic to plastic is probably more efficient.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Limit all new plastic to regulated specific uses. Like synthesis. For everything else we need to clean up our mess.

 

[ChemGal]

I really wasn't thinking for a minute there, and was just thinking polymers in general. Getting useful starting materials from plastic is generally, really difficult. Some are easier than others. There really isn't much of a point of doing it, at least at this time.


As for the industry shortages if we weren't getting chemicals from the oil industry, I was just taking from a primary standpoint. There are also many that aren't from petroleum directly, but are created by reactions from those that are. If the oil industry were to just stop, many other industries would halt as well.

 

[revjohn]

All of which require the killing of plants, right?

Not necessarily. You don't need to kill sheep to get wool.

Bamboo is a grass so I presume you cut it off and it continues to grow. Hemp and flax may require more of the stalk and make it necessary to take the whole of the parent plant. I presume neither are taken until after they have managed to produce enough seed for next year.

All going well each plant will produce enough seed for tens if not hundreds of replacements.

Unless we are going to contemplate the pain the plant feels when harvested a la The Arrogant Worms and Carrot Juice is Murder.

 

[Jaebius]

Not necessarily. You don't need to kill sheep to get wool.

Bamboo is a grass so I presume you cut it off and it continues to grow. Hemp and flax may require more of the stalk and make it necessary to take the whole of the parent plant. I presume neither are taken until after they have managed to produce enough seed for next year.

All going well each plant will produce enough seed for tens if not hundreds of replacements.

Unless we are going to contemplate the pain the plant feels when harvested a la The Arrogant Worms and Carrot Juice is Murder.

Bamboo is the answer. Let's just make everything out of bamboo.

 

[revjohn]

Worked on Gilligan's island why not in real life?

 

[Mendalla]

Don't laugh. I've seen some amazing things done with bamboo over in China (likely applies to Korea, too, but I'll let Jae comment on that). Scaffolding around construction projects and that sort of thing.

 

[Jaebius]

Don't laugh. I've seen some amazing things done with bamboo over in China (likely applies to Korea, too, but I'll let Jae comment on that). Scaffolding around construction projects and that sort of thing.

Can't honestly say that I noticed any great modern works in Korea made of bamboo. If I remember correctly, parts of the King's Palace, and the Korean Folk Village (historical sites open to the public) were made of bamboo.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

I have socks made of bamboo fibre weave. They are very soft.