Subject: COVID-19 Pandemic and Universal Basic Income Program

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Ritafee

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Another issue is people who wouldn't use the money to meet their needs but instead put it to other things. How do we handle that?
It's none of your business what people use the money for why do you think it is?
 

ChemGal

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It's none of your business what people use the money for why do you think it is?
Because I live in society. What people do does affect others.
If people are addicts do you think we should let them just OD and ignore them?
 

Ritafee

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Because I live in society. What people do does affect others.
If people are addicts do you think we should let them just OD and ignore them?
That would be different than what we are doing now? ... oh wait we don't ignore them when they are rich politicians ... we afford them legal loopholes and luxurious rehabilitation facilities at the taxpayer's expense.
 
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That would be different than what we are doing now? ... oh wait we don't ignore them when they are rich politicians ... we afford them legal loopholes and luxurious rehabilitation facilities at the taxpayer's expense.
The question, then, really isn't what they spend it on or what govt department issues it, it's how much overall cash money everyone gets. If it wouldn't cover such services, it's not enough anyway. However it could cover a good chunk of expenses that the wealthy spend on their basic wellbeing - and they'll be getting it too.

Besides, you're against taxation - so are the billionaires. How are services going to be paid for?
 
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I think we should be looking at it differently from a Canadian not American perspective. Our income assistance, social program and healthcare spending needs improving but the US's is in extremely bad shape. It might be an improvement there. Though I've heard a few similar concerns. If it's rolled into one, they still might cut the bottom end off by cutting services a few programs were given money for that helped the marginalized.
 
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But But ...

OTTAWA — Leah Gazan comes by her socialist credentials honestly. Raised in Winnipeg, her parents were organizers with the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation, a social-democratic party founded by farmers, labourers and socialists that was a predecessor of the NDP.

Gazan, the newly elected NDP MP for Winnipeg Centre, says she grew up steeped in politics. “I believe in democratic values, I believe in our socialist roots,” she told the National Post in a recent interview. “I’m a proud socialist and I’m looking forward to pushing that in the House of Commons and in caucus.”

Gazan’s focus on a grassroots style of politics has earned her comparisons to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the U.S. congresswoman who’s part of a crop of young, social media-savvy politicians pushing the Democrats to the left.
So? I agree we need more robust social spending - including income programs for the marginalized. I might not agree with her on how that happens. I might agree with her overall on most things. If it was of critical importance and I lived in her constituency I would write to her. If she neglected something I felt was of critical importance and I lived in her constituency, I might vote for somebody else next time. If she was the best option, still, I might vote for her and keep addressing that issue I still felt was critical. Maybe I could meet with or write to my MP and ask them if they can bring my concern up in Cabinet and other MPs would hear their comments. Or I could write a letter to the editor and get word out that way, or talk to social service and advocacy organizations and find out what their position is and what they are doing about it.
 
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Ritafee

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Being poor and homeless is better in North America for Canadians then?
If it was of critical importance and I lived in her constituency I would write to her.
She is asking for all of Canada ... there is no critical importance where you live in canada ... you have no MP to write to?
 
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Being poor and homeless is better in North America for Canadians then?

She is asking for all of Canada ... there is no critical importance where you live in canada ... you have no MP to write to?
I might do that! But it's up to her riding to decide whether to vote for her next time, or not.
 

jimkenney12

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I respect Leah Gazan's goal. Asking to collaborate with provinces on providing this program is like offering a deal which a person knows could never meet the conditions. When we see what Jason Kenney is doing in Alberta and Doug Ford is quietly doing in Ontario, there is no way any federal government could get all the provinces on board with a plan like this. It is possible for the federal government to provide some kind of plan on its own, and do it in a short period of time, preferably starting January 1, 2021 if not sooner. But it has to be paired with a real national housing strategy, not the wishy washy, one Trudeau presented in the previous parliament. Even better would be if a national pharmacare program came into place as well.

Experiences in many countries and jurisdictions has shown that providing safe, secure, healthy housing matters more to health and other outcomes than the number of doctors and other services that are provided. I realize housing is extra expensive in Toronto, Vancouver and Victoria and used to be extremely expensive in Halifax (at least $900/month for old two bedroom apartment 34 years ago in the peninsula).
 

Mendalla

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Even better would be if a national pharmacare program came into place as well.

My impression was that the Liberals were hoping to study the heck out of this one in order to delay it as long as possible. I mean, how can you keep promising a program if you've already delivered it?

(I need to create a [CYNIC] BBCode, I think. Makes my posts bold and some obnoxious colour when my natural cynicism about politics kicks in)
 
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Always fun to listen to how the LLeft plans to spend imaginary money.

Lock down your tax base and collect free money. That is the kind of thinking that guarantees poverty.
 

Luce NDs

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Then to assure poverty one can ship your fortunes into offshore deposits ... so te lesser people are left disadvantaged and do not share the resources of the successful (whom they supported by force) ...
 

ChemGal

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I respect Leah Gazan's goal. Asking to collaborate with provinces on providing this program is like offering a deal which a person knows could never meet the conditions. When we see what Jason Kenney is doing in Alberta and Doug Ford is quietly doing in Ontario, there is no way any federal government could get all the provinces on board with a plan like this. It is possible for the federal government to provide some kind of plan on its own, and do it in a short period of time, preferably starting January 1, 2021 if not sooner. But it has to be paired with a real national housing strategy, not the wishy washy, one Trudeau presented in the previous parliament. Even better would be if a national pharmacare program came into place as well.

Experiences in many countries and jurisdictions has shown that providing safe, secure, healthy housing matters more to health and other outcomes than the number of doctors and other services that are provided. I realize housing is extra expensive in Toronto, Vancouver and Victoria and used to be extremely expensive in Halifax (at least $900/month for old two bedroom apartment 34 years ago in the peninsula).
The problem with a national pharmacare program is that what has been discussed is likely to omit a fair bit, and if that goes ahead many would lose coverage is private companies aren't going to be interested in giving coverage for the expensive drugs with a much more limited base.
 

jimkenney12

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The problem with a national pharmacare program is that what has been discussed is likely to omit a fair bit, and if that goes ahead many would lose coverage is private companies aren't going to be interested in giving coverage for the expensive drugs with a much more limited base.
I had not considered that angle. Definitely lots of discussions neded
 

Luce NDs

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Is omission a sin ... as ohm mission?????

One has to appreciate the construct ... as in sapere aude ... a derivation of sapience ... hated by those not desiring to know much!

Isn't that SAPI or at least dripping from the pool overhead?
 
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I respect Leah Gazan's goal. Asking to collaborate with provinces on providing this program is like offering a deal which a person knows could never meet the conditions. When we see what Jason Kenney is doing in Alberta and Doug Ford is quietly doing in Ontario, there is no way any federal government could get all the provinces on board with a plan like this. It is possible for the federal government to provide some kind of plan on its own, and do it in a short period of time, preferably starting January 1, 2021 if not sooner. But it has to be paired with a real national housing strategy, not the wishy washy, one Trudeau presented in the previous parliament. Even better would be if a national pharmacare program came into place as well.

Experiences in many countries and jurisdictions has shown that providing safe, secure, healthy housing matters more to health and other outcomes than the number of doctors and other services that are provided. I realize housing is extra expensive in Toronto, Vancouver and Victoria and used to be extremely expensive in Halifax (at least $900/month for old two bedroom apartment 34 years ago in the peninsula).
What about disability supports - which are varied? What if they roll provincial income assistance (which eligibility for disability supports is attached to) and federal money into a basic income but by doing that cut disbility supports? There is not going to be a basic income enough to cover that loss to people.

In my experience working for government funded support agencies, they like to consolidate programs and cut corners mostly because it's cheaper for them, not because it's the best way to solve a problem.
 
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Being poor and homeless is better in North America for Canadians then?

She is asking for all of Canada ... there is no critical importance where you live in canada ... you have no MP to write to?
This isn't the only way to get more money to homeless and poor people in Canada. They could up assistance rates to the real cost of living.
 

revjohn

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Hmmm. I think in theory, Universal Basic Income is wise.

In practice, it is most likely a Particular Basic Income that will roll out.

I cannot see the government handing out cheques of X amount to folk in Toronto and the same X amount to folks in, say, Nameless Cove, NL.
 

BetteTheRed

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I would rather money go directly to housing,

I do not know how the system works in your province, but under both "Ontario Works" (welfare) and ODSP (disability), there is a preferred option to pay housing directly to the landlord.
 
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