Sick Days & AMP

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Northwind said:
Do you get your regular pay if you're off sick for those periods of time?
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Yes, I do. That is my point. You are paid if you are sick.

I see the lack of a set number of days as a more just system. If you are sick, you take time off. If you aren't you don't.
You are paid either way.
 
And what if we assume, instead of "misuse" that the "average person" needs "approximately" one sick day per month, and budget, and deal with that, accordingly? I would say, in my 30 year career at one place, that, between children (high sick days) and later years (necessary surgery of older persons, for instance) that 10 days per year worked okay and that our system of "carrying forward/backwards over 3 years" worked well.
 
Pinga said:
Yes, I do. That is my point. You are paid if you are sick.

I see the lack of a set number of days as a more just system. If you are sick, you take time off. If you aren't you don't.
You are paid either way.
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Thanks @Pinga I absolutely agree. It looked like you were advocating for no paid sick days. When I worked in a hospital in Chatham, we got paid 66% when we were sick. That meant people came in sick. As you can imagine, a nurse who is sick is a risk to patients whose immune systems are compromised.
 
With policies where there aren't a specified number of sick days per year I think there's also better productivity in general with flexibility. Sometimes Chemguy will go to work where his presence is needed with a bad headache (I think he is getting migraines). We will come home and nap and respond to emails when he wakes up.
Sick days don't really take into account this type of semi-work day.
 
Pinga said:
Yes, I do. That is my point. You are paid if you are sick.

I see the lack of a set number of days as a more just system. If you are sick, you take time off. If you aren't you don't.
You are paid either way.
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Basically you are advocating for limitless sick days, then?
The scenario you are describing is certainly more generous than a set number of days per year. . . I am not sure how it is more just.

You seem to be assuming widespread abuse of sick days . . . why are you making this assumption?
 
Northwind said:
Thanks @Pinga I absolutely agree. It looked like you were advocating for no paid sick days. When I worked in a hospital in Chatham, we got paid 66% when we were sick. That meant people came in sick. As you can imagine, a nurse who is sick is a risk to patients whose immune systems are compromised.
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I have seen a similar system in other hospitals. The rate of pay for sick days increased each year until it was at 100% after 5 years of service. Short term sick leave was always 75 days. No carrying forward of days, etc. If necessary LTD kicked in after short term sick leave was exhausted.

It seems to me that sick leave provisions of any sort (including what @Pinga is describing) can potentially be misused by employees if they are so inclined. I just don't think the majority of employees take advantage of their employers by misusing their sick time.

AMP's give out mixed messages and tar everyone with the same brush, so to speak.
 
paradox3 said:
I have seen a similar system in other hospitals. The rate of pay for sick days increased each year until it was at 100% after 5 years of service. Short term sick leave was always 75 days. No carrying forward of days, etc. If necessary LTD kicked in after short term sick leave was exhausted.
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That was likely what we had back then. It seems like 100 years ago.
 
BetteTheRed said:
And what if we assume, instead of "misuse" that the "average person" needs "approximately" one sick day per month, and budget, and deal with that, accordingly?
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Hospitals do this as far as the budget is concerned. But they closely monitor usage of sick time above the average.
 
Pinga - it seems that you have always worked in a salaried position, your pay cheque came regularly monthly or bi-monthly, and always for the same amount. You do your job. Sometimes you are so busy that you barely have time to go to the bathroom, let alone coffee breaks or lunch; other times you have slack times, when you can catch up, do some rearranging of your work space or routines, even socialize a bit with your fellow workers. If you know you have to have sick time off - scheduled minor operation or treatment - you put in extra time/effort ahead of time to get things ready. If you unexpectedly have to stay home - cold, flu - your work piles up until you get back. Or you work from home. Most of my life I worked in such a situation.
But a good many workers do not have that privilege. They work shifts in stores, restaurants, call centers, fish packing plants. They get a schedule every two weeks setting out their hours - or they are called and expected in within an hour. They get paid for the hours they work. Not available - no pay cheque. Too many 'sick days' - and they are not scheduled or called. But phones have to be answered, customers waited on, fish filleted and packaged, potatoes picked, etc. They can't be done ahead of time, or put off until they are feeling better. I've seeen peoeple drag themselves off to work when they should be tucked in bed - and yes, they were sometimes contagious.
 
Seeler said:
Pinga - it seems that you have always worked in a salaried position, your pay cheque came regularly monthly or bi-monthly, and always for the same amount. You do your job. Sometimes you are so busy that you barely have time to go to the bathroom, let alone coffee breaks or lunch; other times you have slack times, when you can catch up, do some rearranging of your work space or routines, even socialize a bit with your fellow workers. If you know you have to have sick time off - scheduled minor operation or treatment - you put in extra time/effort ahead of time to get things ready. If you unexpectedly have to stay home - cold, flu - your work piles up until you get back. Or you work from home. Most of my life I worked in such a situation.
But a good many workers do not have that privilege. They work shifts in stores, restaurants, call centers, fish packing plants. They get a schedule every two weeks setting out their hours - or they are called and expected in within an hour. They get paid for the hours they work. Not available - no pay cheque. Too many 'sick days' - and they are not scheduled or called. But phones have to be answered, customers waited on, fish filleted and packaged, potatoes picked, etc. They can't be done ahead of time, or put off until they are feeling better. I've seeen peoeple drag themselves off to work when they should be tucked in bed - and yes, they were sometimes contagious.
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The malevolently ill, it is working viciously at getting sick ... sort of an industrialized thing to a dead soul ... sweet dreams about having a moderate job ... the industrialists will think this mean as enigmatic metaphors ... a paradox of sorts like rye Pita ... bread naked? That's how we goes ... wigglin' our way to success of learning about reading between the lines ...

Where the truth hides ... soothing the way for commercial BS ... to say rest not. Sooth says find a good point and listen, watch what really goes on ... core Shine/coercive? Tis an anagram like Ba Ba and ABBA ... four winds of resonance in a hollow log UEth ... youth getting over endocrines? Some never get over it and bully their war through life ... others use metaphors as Hypos in the tub ... they go down the drain as flexible too --- Anne Murray! There's critters out there folks ... beyond the walls of home ole ET ics! And Isis is a cold state ... something like political industrialism ... only one way out religiously! Thus the normal determinacy experience ... NDE allowing for the squirm to escape. See another PTSD incident in NS ... another denied activity that is too ... malevolently unseen! Such comings and goings are dark and unknown ... critical cognizance ... alas still dark and occult stopping some in the learning about the human social psychic cost of hard-shelled naïveté? Is it a stunning shock ... stew PID ... transposable to PITA ... deflated quanta when dealing with a grain of thought?

Causes a network in the exploration of mind/soul/psyche ... an unspeakable attribute ... don't go there for we fear what you'd learn. I get this image of a mollusk or a wrinkle in due time ... duet-I'me ... as projected crossing of the line? Those pagans must be contained ... thus whine in the des crypt ... merlin or mire-lo'? Bottom end dirt ... on extenuating drift ... chaos, all is chaos whether you love it or intellectualize ... unless your gather both ... a strange state beyond divine intervention of the wedge-AE ...
 
Since unions have been mentioned on this thread I would like to point out that attendance management in hospitals affects union and non-union staff alike.

When my manager gave me the Step 1 AMP letter she shared with me that she, herself, had received the same letter in that six month cycle. In her case, the absence was due to emergency surgery and the recovery period. Her letter was presented to her by the next management level up.
 
Anything can be misused. Placing the control in the employees hands to know when they are sick and when to stay home is for me the most just.
Is it unlimited? No -- short-term disability kicks in, as does long-term.
Is it possible that someone will misuse it? Sure, just as do people who misuse working from home, or doing personal things at work, or underperforming. It becomes a performance issue, and yes, there can be things kicking in.

Seeler, I agree that changes need to happen for termporary workers as well as hourly workers. I find that many don't have benefits if part-time. some by choice, some not.
 
paradox3 said:
Since unions have been mentioned on this thread I would like to point out that attendance management in hospitals affects union and non-union staff alike.

When my manager gave me the Step 1 AMP letter she shared with me that she, herself, had received the same letter in that six month cycle. In her case, the absence was due to emergency surgery and the recovery period. Her letter was presented to her by the next management level up.
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That process seems broken. It makes me wonder what it was put into address, or was it somebody's resume builder.
Having to enter a protocol after you have been out, including hospital seems overkill and invasive
 
Pinga said:
Anything can be misused. Placing the control in the employees hands to know when they are sick and when to stay home is for me the most just.
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Yes, exactly! Absolutely it is the most just way to treat employees. I even think there is evidence that employees will generally live up to expectations if they are trusted. Not all employees certainly but probably most.

Agreed that misuse of sick time is a performance issue. In fact I would argue managers are slacking off if they don't address performance issues. Of any sort.
 
Irresponsibility is best ... under the ruse (roué's) of do as you wish?

Ever read any strange literature of irresponsible and irrational CEO's?
 
Pinga said:
That process seems broken. It makes me wonder what it was put into address, or was it somebody's resume builder.
Having to enter a protocol after you have been out, including hospital seems overkill and invasive
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But that's attendance management for you. Very common in the public sector.
 
I think a sick policy instead of # of sick days can work for hourly paid workers too. I have done hourly work before. Different workplaces it will put different strains on others, but that's true whether it's a specific number of days or not.
 
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