Seriously God, you chose them??????

[airclean33]

Rev John Post--

And yet, as a boy Jesus is found debating the Law with Priests in the temple and they are amazed by his learning.
And all though his ministry he engages Priests and teachers of the law which rather suggests that understanding was possible prior to his death so I don't think that your notion that the meaning of all scripture was hidden from the Jews is a strong one.

Airclean--post--

Then John why was Jesus debating them? If they were in agreement"
what was there to Debate?

John --post--

But we are free to disagree right?

Airclean--
I agree with this.

 

[GordW]

Then John why was Jesus debating them? If they were in agreement"
what was there to Debate?

John can correct me if I misread him but I did not see him say that they were in agreement. He said they had a strong background in Scripture and what it meant. But since there is not one meaning to or understanding of Scripture (not within Judaism, not within Christianity) there is always room for discussion and debate about how to apply Scripture in a specific situation. In fact that is the rabbinic tradition to a tee (and I would argue is the best way to do Christian theology as well).

 

[airclean33]

Probably not as much as you think. Because I would choose one over the other it does not follow that I think one is worthless. I didn't get to sit at Jesus' feet for three years. So I have sat at the feet of disciples of disciples of disciples of disciples who sat at the feet of Jesus. Paul didn't get three years of sitting at Jesus' feet. He sat at the feet of disciples of Jesus and before that he sat at the feet of Gamaliel.

Airclean--post-
Hi John I don't wish to make a judgement on others . That is not why I am sent. To those who don't believe I can warn them. And try and help them find the way. But it is not my choice it is there's. Those who are saved
I may ask why they are going the way they are? Try an give them the way back" by the Word Of GOD.
If they won't listen after the WORD' I can try an have others try an help them.

Re John--post-
He made the best of what he was given and based on the fact he is responsible for more material contained in the NT than anyone else I would have to say he did exceedingly well for someone who did not get to sit at the literal feet of Jesus.

Unless you are much older you didn't sit at the literal feet of Jesus. Like myself you were taught by a disciple of a disciple of a disciple of a disciple.

Which doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit hasn't participated in your learning process. Nor does it mean that the Holy Spirit has been absent from mine.

airclean--post-- Well John you will agree that a believer was sent to lay hands on Paul' so he could See, I will say to also Hear GOD . From that day on Paul had GODS Teacher" with him an he began to learn from The Teacher" inside The GIFT God give's. Of course Paul" could learn from others' who had the Teacher" in them as well.
He later showed all the Signs of having GODS Holy Spirit in him. This showed he was a Chosen child of GOD.
By the way John . I don't thing I ever said 'you don't have Gods Holy Spirt John . You have misunderstood if you remember I told you this. When you said you cast out a demean at the camp. I take it to be a sign. Yet you refused the laying on of your friends' hands to Speak in Tongues. This is One of GODS Signs that all can hear an understand 'You are a Brother or Sister in God. Your Brother with are Father in Heaven. Greetings to you in Peace . airclean33- Gord.

 

[Luce NDs]

Hands on empiric ... that's life to a "T" ... eternal folks must pas thro' IT ... an artificial passage to a host of people seeing it as a hajji! What's out there is virtue ... all of it ... or Olivet if you wish!

 

[airclean33]

John can correct me if I misread him but I did not see him say that they were in agreement. He said they had a strong background in Scripture and what it meant. But since there is not one meaning to or understanding of Scripture (not within Judaism, not within Christianity) there is always room for discussion and debate about how to apply Scripture in a specific situation. In fact that is the rabbinic tradition to a tee (and I would argue is the best way to do Christian theology as well).

Airclean --post --I can agree to a point GordW. That being our Lord Jesus" The Christ is never wrong GordW. Nor do I believe Rev that the only way to Learn is through theology' we prey and kneel to a living GOD". Perhaps it is time we understand that. airclean33

 

[Luce NDs]

Light is good if you can see through emotional blindness!

A silver lining to a dark miasma?

 

[airclean33]

Disagreement is fair. Of course your position means that the Jews knew absolutely nothing about their own scriptures which is rather stunning. That they understood them differently than Christians generally do is pretty much a given. That they did not understand them at all is bordering on Anti-Semitism.

--Airclean--post--
I will try an answer these as best I can.
First there are many things that GOD dose are reasons we don't understand . The bible said GOD harden there Hearts" so they would not recognise The Christ even when He was talking to them .

John --post--
How did they misunderstand the Commandment to worship God and God alone?

Airclean--post--Yet when Christ said GOD and I are One . They could not nor "would not understand it.

John-- post---
How did they misunderstand the Commandment to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy?

--Airclean--post--
The Jews did". Israel the other 10 Tribes did not.

John-- post--
How did they misunderstand the Commandments not to murder, commit adulter, steal or bear false witness?

Airclean--post--
As Jesus explained --Once more they did not understand. For by being of Sin they were Judging others well they" them self's where full of sin. And Jesus said to the women go an sin No More. The only person ever on earth " that had no sin.


And yet, as a boy Jesus is found debating the Law with Priests in the temple and they are amazed by his learning.
And all though his ministry he engages Priests and teachers of the law which rather suggests that understanding was possible prior to his death so I don't think that your notion that the meaning of all scripture was hidden from the Jews is a strong one.

But we are free to disagree right?

--Rev John --Look around at the Christian Church's today . Are they not like Israel" broke in two?
One calls them self's Catholics' and the other Protestant'. I believe Jesus The Christ" is Head of all. That is the one Church . We have but one GOD". As did Israel". But even as till this day. They don't yet understand it.
These are my beliefs Rev. Yes we are free to disagree. Which I believe also there is a reason for disagreeing. We as Brothers should find out why that is. airclean 33 -Gord,

 

[unsafe]

airclean33 -----your quote -----
Nor do I believe Rev that the only way to Learn is through theology' we prey and kneel to a living GOD". Perhaps it is time we understand that.

What is Theology ---a Study is all -----No Theology can teach anyone spiritual insights only the Holy Spirit can do that -----

Definition of theology ---Webster
plural theologies
1:the study of religious faith, practice, and experience; especially: the study of God and of God's relation to the world

We either believe this scripture God's Word by the Way --to be True or we don't ----there is no in between ----God says His word is Truth -----anyone wants to argue with that will have to take it up with God -----

This scripture says it best -----We can disagree if we want to but it doesn't change the words in the scripture

1 JOHN 2:27----Can't get any plainer English than this -----how many ways can one interpret this ------

GW
The anointing you received from Christ lives in you. You don’t need anyone to teach you something else. Instead, Christ’s anointing teaches you about everything. His anointing is true and contains no lie. So live in Christ as he taught you to do.

 

[Delightful Life]

John can correct me if I misread him but I did not see him say that they were in agreement. He said they had a strong background in Scripture and what it meant. But since there is not one meaning to or understanding of Scripture (not within Judaism, not within Christianity) there is always room for discussion and debate about how to apply Scripture in a specific situation. In fact that is the rabbinic tradition to a tee (and I would argue is the best way to do Christian theology as well).

Perhaps that is a universal
That we think / think best when we talk?
Otherwise its just locked inside our heads...

 

[unsafe]

unsafe says ---
Here is the Greek Text for 1 John 2:27 for anyone who wants to translate it can so ----and let us know if it comes out different in the Written Greek Language than it is in the English language -----this would be interesting ------

1 John 2:27 Greek Text Analysis
Greek Texts
Nestle GNT 1904
καὶ ὑμεῖς τὸ χρῖσμα ὃ ἐλάβετε ἀπ’ αὐτοῦ μένει ἐν ὑμῖν, καὶ οὐ χρείαν ἔχετε ἵνα τις διδάσκῃ ὑμᾶς· ἀλλ’ ὡς τὸ αὐτοῦ χρῖσμα διδάσκει ὑμᾶς περὶ πάντων, καὶ ἀληθές ἐστιν καὶ οὐκ ἔστιν ψεῦδος, καὶ καθὼς ἐδίδαξεν ὑμᾶς, μένετε ἐν αὐτῷ.

 

[Jaebius]

--Rev John --Look around at the Christian Church's today . Are they not like Israel" broke in two?
One calls them self's Catholics' and the other Protestant'. I believe Jesus The Christ" is Head of all. That is the one Church . We have but one GOD". As did Israel". But even as till this day. They don't yet understand it.
These are my beliefs Rev. Yes we are free to disagree. Which I believe also there is a reason for disagreeing. We as Brothers should find out why that is. airclean 33 -Gord,

If the Christian Church is broken as you suggest, I would say that it isn't into two but rather into at least four: Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Pentecostal/Charismatic. However, that there are different faith traditions need not take away from the truth that there is but one Church Universal.

 

[Luce NDs]

A great wore al ... warren? Thus the feudalism ...

 

[Mendalla]

Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Pentecostal/Charismatic

And all of those splinter further into various groups. Even the RCs have some odd groups under their tent, though they are probably the most unified of the four streams.

However, that there are different faith traditions need not take away from the truth that there is but one Church Universal.

Exactly. Too bad so many Christians don't seem to accept this idea and insist that THEIR Christianity is the right one OR that some other group "isn't really Christian". When I hear Protestants sniping at RCs or Protestant denominations raging against each other, it becomes hard to see the "Church Universal" as anything other than a pipedream.

 

[Delightful Life]

That's the chaos of free speech for yas
Lets us use words instead of violence

 

[Mendalla]

Lets us use words instead of violence

As long as the words don't lead to violence. Too often they do.

 

[revjohn]

Then John why was Jesus debating them? If they were in agreement"

Debate doesn't mean disagreement in all things. GeoFee and I debate points here and there quite readily. He and I remain united in Christ Jesus.

what was there to Debate?

I'm guessing you aren't overly familiar with Rabbinics. Not knowing precisely which texts were being debated there is no way to know what was actually being debated.

And the point is that even though they debated the Rabbis were amazed at his learning. Which means they saw the wisdom he was pointing to and did not think because they disagreed that he must be wrong.

 

[airclean33]

Who should disagree with the passage Unsafe's gave us?
Is it not by God we are to learn'? The Teacher is Gods Holy Spirit. IT WILL BE WITH YOU ALWAYS.

I know nothing if not by GOD. "ALL GLORY IS HIS".
AMEN Sister. I was just reading this yesterday or this morning.

If the Christian Church is broken as you suggest, I would say that it isn't into two but rather into at least four: Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Pentecostal/Charismatic. However, that there are different faith traditions need not take away from the truth that there is but one Church Universal.

--Hi Jae I respect your school Jae. But many of these church's I have been in. most of any I was in believe GOD is Father. Jesus is His Son. They each believe many other things. I had a witness come to my door one day 'I said come on in. It was around Christmas that day. So of course I had my tree up. He said why do you put that up? I said because it is almost my Lords birthday. He said we should look in are Bible's. You know what it's not there ? Oh there is Bible teaching that The Christ was born. But no Dec 25. It took me two years of reading to find out what is going on. And they say the Jehovah's Witnesses are mix up.

 

[Delightful Life]

As long as the words don't lead to violence. Too often they do.

Its our current best alternative
We've already tried banning certain ideas and words for most of our civilized existence
Doesn't work...look at the rise of white supremacists in Germany where they have extreme hate crime laws against certain ideas and speech and even gestures (like the hitler salute)
Words don't cause violence; people do.
It's dynamic almost a living thing
We are fortunate here in the West to have certain BS and mechanisms etc that enable us to thrive and exist with differences of opinion worldviews etc
So can talk aboot how we think homosexuality isn't good for society without needing to throw them off buildings...
We've got something good going on here that I do hope continues...despite the many "powers and principalities" (things like postmodernism from within and fundy islamism from without) that threaten us...

Unfortunately not all of the world believes in this and has these mechanisms...so in a bind...do we intentionally spread this to other cultures etc? Hmm...

Or something like that
Oh look, its the sun

Ps see out way of doing things is infectuous
Saudi Arabia to end ban on women driving

 

[Luce NDs]

Its our current best alternative
We've already tried banning certain ideas and words for most of our civilized existence
Doesn't work...look at the rise of white supremacists in Germany where they have extreme hate crime laws against certain ideas and speech and even gestures (like the hitler salute)
Words don't cause violence; people do.
We are fortunate here in the West to have certain BS and mechanisms etc that enable us to thrive and exist with differences of opinion worldviews etc
So can talk aboot how we think homosexuality isn't good for society without needing to throw them off buildings...
We've got something good going on here that I do hope continues...despite the many "powers and principalities" (things like postmodernism from within and fundy islamism from without) that threaten us...

Unfortunately not all of the world believes in this and has these mechanisms...so in a bind...do we intentionally spread this to other cultures etc? Hmm...

Or something like that
Oh look, its the sun

Tis all in theis crypt ..

 

[revjohn]

airclean--post-- Well John you will agree that a believer was sent to lay hands on Paul' so he could See

Yes I agree that a believer was sent to lay hands on Paul as part of the process of having his sight restored. What does that tell you? What specifically was it about Ananias that made God send him?

, I will say to also Hear GOD .

Paul wasn't struck deaf and apparently had a conversation with God after being struck blind so . . . not so much. Paul does spend several days with the disciples in Damascus. No text mentions Ananias again or that he specifically taught Paul. After Damascus he spends the better part of three years in Arabia before moving on to Jerusalem to confer with the Apostles.

By the way John . I don't thing I ever said 'you don't have Gods Holy Spirt John . You have misunderstood if you remember I told you this. When you said you cast out a demean at the camp. I take it to be a sign. Yet you refused the laying on of your friends' hands to Speak in Tongues.

Nowhere have I ever claimed to cast out a demon. Have I encountered one? I believe that to be the case. To be candid I would claim I have encountered demons on three occasions none of which would have qualified as a demonic possession and required casting out. I discerned their presence and leaned upon on God in prayer. Their presence diminished rapidly.

I also never refused the laying on of hands and none of my friends have ever offered to lay hands on me so that I might speak in tongues. Friends laid hands on me and they prayed over me in tongues. My response to that today is the same as it was then. It was interesting but not eventful.

[FONT=Open Sans, sans-serif]I suspect I remember my testimony better than you do.

And whether or not you believe I have the Holy Spirit in me it is surpassingly obvious that when it comes to discussing scripture and you disagree with me on scripture your grounds for disagreement is that the Holy Spirit tells you something else. So, then, what spirit is informing my understanding which you continually disagree with?

[/FONT]
This is One of GODS Signs that all can hear an understand 'You are a Brother or Sister in God. Your Brother with are Father in Heaven. Greetings to you in Peace . airclean33- Gord.

Thank you.