Seriously God, you chose them??????

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GordW

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THis week I am working with a snippet of Jacob's story. JAcob, to put it bluntly, is a jerk. He is deceptive and conniving. And this comes from the account written by those who find Jacob (later called Israel) to be the founder of their nation. Imagine what his enemies and victims (Esau and Laban come to mind) might have said about him?

ANd really many great heroes of the faith are deeply flawed. Why does God choose these people, people who are unlikable, people who are unqualified, people who sometimes are immoral?

OTOH, if God can bless Jacob maybe God can bless us?

My early thoughts:
Ministerial Mutterings: Looking Ahead to September 17, 2017 -- Jacob the Blessed? Jacob the Jerk?
 

airclean33

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ANd really many great heroes of the faith are deeply flawed. Why does God choose these people, people who are unlikable, people who are unqualified, people who sometimes are immoral?
This you post GordW --GOD Choses who so ever He wills. Do we know all things as GOD dose ? Can you see tomorrow? Let alone , 50 years , or 100 years from now. Do you have the mind to Judge all thing's? Do we even know what is right" , and what is wrong. If you do then why did you sin? Is our GOD not, a rightest ,an wonderful GOD? Ours is not to ask , why". It is but to say, "All Glory Is Gods".
airclean33.
 

Inannawhimsey

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THis week I am working with a snippet of Jacob's story. JAcob, to put it bluntly, is a jerk. He is deceptive and conniving. And this comes from the account written by those who find Jacob (later called Israel) to be the founder of their nation. Imagine what his enemies and victims (Esau and Laban come to mind) might have said about him?

ANd really many great heroes of the faith are deeply flawed. Why does God choose these people, people who are unlikable, people who are unqualified, people who sometimes are immoral?

OTOH, if God can bless Jacob maybe God can bless us?

My early thoughts:
Ministerial Mutterings: Looking Ahead to September 17, 2017 -- Jacob the Blessed? Jacob the Jerk?
Oh
That's one of the many racist injokes of the bibble
Jacob is supposed to represent a people and a place
Not an individual
The Bibble is RIFE with in jokes and satire and a lot of other things...:3
 

Luce NDs

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Oh
That's one of the many racist injokes of the bibble
Jacob is supposed to represent a people and a place
Not an individual
The Bibble is RIFE with in jokes and satire and a lot of other things...:3
Thus the ups and downs of high's ladder ... simulates Celtic LAN's ... local stuff 've curios nature ... a' Moors! De veil thing to get behind and see what's back there ... could be Jack was a Jaqueline? Most thing sin reality are not as they appear ...

If you believe your sane ... you're not and vice verses ... tend toward squeeze ...literary devising!
 

crazyheart

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ANd really many great heroes of the faith are deeply flawed. Why does God choose these people, people who are unlikable, people who are unqualified, people who sometimes are immoral?]

And a bigger question why do people who read the bible literally idolize these people or skip

those stories and passages when they preach?
 

BetteTheRed

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You're right. Why don't we get to unpack those passages where all kinds of famous people act like total s**ts. David, lusting after a married woman, sending her husband into battle to get killed. Lot, screwing his daughters.
 

Inannawhimsey

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You're right. Why don't we get to unpack those passages where all kinds of famous people act like total s**ts. David, lusting after a married woman, sending her husband into battle to get killed. Lot, screwing his daughters.
Yeah!!!
Stop censoring ourselves
Sombunall Imams are pretty open aboot their faith
Even tho there has been a campaign that still goes on to whitewash things
We human beings arent stupid
But intelligent and curious
And can deal with whatever we find...
 

unsafe

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Is Jacob the only so called Jerk Esau sold his birth-right for a dish of pottage ---he ate and drank and satisfied his appetite ---got up and walked away without a thought or regret about the bad bargain he has made ----Esau despised his birth-right ---by his contempt in walking away he put his bargain past ever getting it back ----

-But we have to remember here God saw no sin here in Jacob or Esau as there was no law in place for lying --deceiving or casting away a birth -right ----what He did see is that Jacob was looking to the future by wanting the birth-right --while Esau was not interested in the future by casting away his birth-right ---this is just my view ----

The lesson here is neither were sorry for what they did and neither repented ----and it shows how greed and envy can split and hurt families

As far as Jacob is concerned his birth-right was by Spiritual promise ----Esau is by birth ----Jacob was wrong as well in what he did but God does not break His covenant --I personally Believe that when Isaac found out about the deception of the Blessing He didn't reverse the error because Isaac knew that it was in God's plan for Jacob to be Blessed ---Here below God says to Rebekah the older will serve the younger ----

So God did not just choose Jacob at random to Bless ---God Blessed Isaac and Isaac blessed Jacob instead of Esau because of the deception --God had made a Covenant with Abraham and His seed -----and God knows the hearts of people and God had a plan in place and His plan will play out on His terms whether we agree with it or not ----God had Jacob in His plan from the beginning ----scripture below -- 21 Isaac prayed to the Lord for his wife because she was childless. The Lord answered his prayer, and his wife Rebekah became pregnant.
23 The Lord said to her,

Two countries are in your womb.
Two nations will go their separate ways from birth.
One nation will be stronger than the other,

and the older will serve the younger.”


Genesis 25:19-34GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

Esau and Jacob


19 This is the account of Abraham’s son Isaac and his descendants. Abraham was the father of Isaac. 20 Isaac was 40 years old when he married Rebekah, daughter of Bethuel the Aramean from Paddan Aram and sister of Laban the Aramean. 21 Isaac prayed to the Lord for his wife because she was childless. The Lord answered his prayer, and his wife Rebekah became pregnant. 22 When the children inside her were struggling with each other, she said, “If it’s like this now, what will become of me So she went to ask the Lord.

23 The Lord said to her,

Two countries are in your womb.
Two nations will go their separate ways from birth.
One nation will be stronger than the other,

and the older will serve the younger.”

So we have to remember that God dealt directly with the people in the Old Testament and when the Law was in effect the Curse was in place cause no man could keep the law to get the Blessing -----today we have to receive Jesus as our Lord and Saviour to be Blessed under the New Covenant ---if you have not the Holy Spirit you are still under the law and under the curse ---and the church should be informed of that so they know the truth ----- that is my view
 

chansen

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THis week I am working with a snippet of Jacob's story. JAcob, to put it bluntly, is a jerk. He is deceptive and conniving. And this comes from the account written by those who find Jacob (later called Israel) to be the founder of their nation. Imagine what his enemies and victims (Esau and Laban come to mind) might have said about him?

ANd really many great heroes of the faith are deeply flawed. Why does God choose these people, people who are unlikable, people who are unqualified, people who sometimes are immoral?

OTOH, if God can bless Jacob maybe God can bless us?

My early thoughts:
Ministerial Mutterings: Looking Ahead to September 17, 2017 -- Jacob the Blessed? Jacob the Jerk?
Is it as simple as jerks look up to jerks? If you present people with biblical characters they identify with, are they simply more attracted to the religion?

Christianity attracts a lot of jerks who love to tell people how wrong they are and how they will pay for not believing or believing in a different way. "Sin" is a lovely invention for jerks to use against others. This is an ongoing problem that most of Christianity won't speak about, so thanks for bringing it up.
 

Waterfall

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Well you have to give credit to those who compiled the Bible.....they could have left all the bad parts out and made everyone look perfect, but instead it was all left in....warts and all.
 

Inannawhimsey

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Well you have to give credit to those who compiled the Bible.....they could have left all the bad parts out and made everyone look perfect, but instead it was all left in....warts and all.
I still love our lying tricksterish genderbending abandoning angry genocidal maniac Lord:love:
Just like real life!
Ps still havent read the Jeffersonian Bibble
 

Jae

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Is it as simple as jerks look up to jerks? If you present people with biblical characters they identify with, are they simply more attracted to the religion?

Christianity attracts a lot of jerks who love to tell people how wrong they are and how they will pay for not believing or believing in a different way. "Sin" is a lovely invention for jerks to use against others. This is an ongoing problem that most of Christianity won't speak about, so thanks for bringing it up.
What great worldview do you offer up as an alternative?
 

Inannawhimsey

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The world view of humans actually treating other humans as intrinsically worthy.
That's in both Judaism and Christianity
Human Beings are Special and Sacred, chosen by Reality itself
And we were put here 2 be good gardeners of Earth
Imho
 

chansen

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Well you have to give credit to those who compiled the Bible.....they could have left all the bad parts out and made everyone look perfect, but instead it was all left in....warts and all.
They aren't flaws - they successfully apeal to people. Look how many public jerks are loved by Christians. Even God is a jerk in some places. It works. It also sucks, but it's not a flaw.
 

Waterfall

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Everybody is a jerk sometimes.....but we either work to correct it, especially when someone calls us on it, or we don't.
 

Neo

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Jacob wanted to inherit the earth. Using a rock as a pillow, he climbed the ladder to God in his dream where God then gave him exactly what Jacob wanted: "the land whereon thou liest". Jacob had his earthly reward. Is there more to this story?
 

Jae

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Is "don't look up to jerks" too obvious?
Through the years you've been quite fond of mocking Christianity. However, I can't recall you once ever giving a reasonable defence for your own atheism. "We're not jerks" doesn't quite cover it.
 
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