Seriously God, you chose them??????

[Luce NDs]

Then there was the African Rift with Lucy found at the bottom end of it ... or the bones thereof!

 

[Luce NDs]

You're right. Why don't we get to unpack those passages where all kinds of famous people act like total s**ts. David, lusting after a married woman, sending her husband into battle to get killed. Lot, screwing his daughters.

Life's like that because of the support of avarice ... to get control of opinion. Isn't that a stinking position ... yet this object believe us to be the subject of contention ... causing us who ponder to question which point we observe from ... a far out perspective or not under the elimination clause of Exclusion Prin.? May be pure politic ... they bug the mean ... those that carry on ... can ah boule as cis? Trans motive assembly!

 

[Luce NDs]

Is Jacob the only so called Jerk Esau sold his birth-right for a dish of pottage

Yhat's gruel to speak of ---Charles in a Dickens of a state of mine ... pit heh!

 

[Luce NDs]

Is it as simple as jerks look up to jerks? If you present people with biblical characters they identify with, are they simply more attracted to the religion?

Christianity attracts a lot of jerks who love to tell people how wrong they are and how they will pay for not believing or believing in a different way. "Sin" is a lovely invention for jerks to use against others. This is an ongoing problem that most of Christianity won't speak about, so thanks for bringing it up.

They myst the theme of supportive pragmatism! Thus the haze and Ahazariah ... creation know there had to be an alternate other to leer at the booty ... tis a secularly divined state of mind ... heave 'n all ova ... a rush to se whom get scroo edged first ... thus whetted?

Da Vinci even foresaw the water augur ... sweated lift ... or Swede ... bored plug for things po'ly misunderstood as things befall emotional states ... of which we appear small parts ...

 

[chansen]

Through the years you've been quite fond of mocking Christianity. However, I can't recall you once ever giving a reasonable defence for your own atheism. "We're not jerks" doesn't quite cover it.

Well, we don't use scripture to justify being a jerk.

We've been over this countless times. "Atheism" shouldn't really even be a thing. It's just the position that no religion has convinced me they are based in reality or are even worth following. You don't follow lots of religions, too.

 

[Luce NDs]

Atheism is like a'gnostics ... outside observation of those sternly following the rule book! In some traditions this is observation as noting what has past .. not possible is tuck as a stick in the presence ... a flow of questionable nature ... thoughts are poor about it as we just don't know ... some make ridiculous claims about IDe ...

 

[airclean33]

You're right. Why don't we get to unpack those passages where all kinds of famous people act like total s**ts. David, lusting after a married woman, sending her husband into battle to get killed. Lot, screwing his daughters.

--Hi BetteTheRed-- I guess you don't read Gods Word to often .Or just don't understand it. God dose not, change your Flesh , it is against Him. He changes your spirit to be as His son. We are to do as Christ Jesus did" and make our flesh obey GOD The Father . I have been at it for 40 some ode years . I am still as a child in GODS " Kingdom. All Glory Is Gods.

 

[Luce NDs]

Given the scatter effect of emotional impact ... would thoughts be distributed? Quite a tribulation for some to gather ...

 

[Mendalla]

To maybe put a bit of another spin on the OP topic.

This is a story and it is the story of the founding of a people. Having the main character be a bit of a s**t (a) makes the story more interesting and (b) telegraphs the message that being human is a messy business and moral perfection is simply not going to be found anywhere. Having your tribes founder be less than flawless captures his humanity and that of your people. There are, of course, meanings to be gleaned from some his failings, too.

 

[airclean33]

Jacob wanted to inherit the earth. Using a rock as a pillow, he climbed the ladder to God in his dream where God then gave him exactly what Jacob wanted: "the land whereon thou liest". Jacob had his earthly reward. Is there more to this story?

HI Neo --I believe this to be a wonderful question.
I was hoping many would give an answer . I will give one hoping others will give more.
I took note the Angels climbing up were doing so by many steps. Also those climbing down also did so in many of steps. To me this take's about us" coming an going to heaven.
Going up one step at a time. We have to learn Gods ways.

 

[crazyheart]

But there has to be a heaven, angels and miracles.

 

[Jaebius]

But there has to be a heaven, angels and miracles.

Yes, I agree.

 

[chansen]

But there has to be a heaven, angels and miracles.

Reality doesn't especially care what we insist "has" to be.

 

[Neo]

I believe that "Jacob's Ladder" was symbolic of a way of traversing the "many mansions" that Jesus spoke of. In his dream (and not in reality) Jacob was lifted into the heavenly realms where he was basically "given" what he sought after, e.g. his earthly realm.

 

[unsafe]

unsafe says and posted scripture
Neo ---your quote -----Jacob wanted to inherit the earth. Using a rock as a pillow, he climbed the ladder to God in his dream where God then gave him exactly what Jacob wanted

Your statement here ----Jacob wanted to inherit the earth ----No---- God was keeping His Covenant to Abraham and His seed ----and No Jacob didn't climb the ladder ----- no where does it say Jacob climbed the ladder ----

Genesis 28 (ERV)
Jacob’s Dream at Bethel

He dreamed there was a ladder that was on the ground and reached up into heaven. He saw the angels of God going up and down the ladder. 13 And then Jacob saw the Lord standing by the ladder. He said, “I am the Lord, the God of your grandfather Abraham. I am the God of Isaac. I will give you the land that you are lying on now. I will give this land to you and to your children. 14 You will have as many descendants as there are particles of dust on the earth. They will spread east and west, north and south. All the families on earth will be blessed because of you and your descendants.

15 “I am with you, and I will protect you everywhere you go. I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised.”

unsafe says and posted scripture ----

God Never breaks His promises and never leaves His Children ----

So this is what it means to me -----this is just my view here ----

Jesus is the ladder that reaches from earth to heaven -----Jesus refers to the angels coming and going on the Son of Man in John 1:51 -----

John1:35-51 GW---

Calling of the First Disciples -----read the chapter here ----
Bible Gateway passage: John 1:35-51 - GOD’S WORD Translation

I am just posting these verses ----51 in particular ---

47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward him and remarked, “Here is a true Israelite who is sincere.”

48 Nathanael asked Jesus, “How do you know anything about me?”

Jesus answered him, “I saw you under the fig tree before Philip called you.”

49 Nathanael said to Jesus, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are the king of Israel!”

50 Jesus replied, “You believe because I told you that I saw you under the fig tree. You will see greater things than that.”

51 Jesus said to Nathanael, “I can guarantee this truth: You will see the sky open and God’s angels going up and coming down to the Son of Man.”



The angels going up to heaven and down to earth on the ladder are carrying God's will and promises to people who are faithful to Him ----

Psalms 103 AMP -----

20 Bless the Lord, you His angels,
You mighty ones who do His commandments,
Obeying the voice of His word!
21
Bless the Lord, all you His hosts,
You who serve Him and do His will.
22
Bless the Lord, all you works of His, in all places of His dominion;
Bless and affectionately praise the Lord, O my soul!


The ladder that Jacob sees the angels on is the only road to God ---Jesus Christ ---Jesus stands with one foot in heaven and one here on earth bridging the gap between man and God ----


when Jacob wakes up -----he is in awe ----

16 Then Jacob woke up from his sleep and exclaimed, “Certainly, the Lord is in this place, and I didn’t know it!” 17 Filled with awe, he said, “How awe-inspiring this place is! Certainly, this is the house of God and the gateway to heaven!”


The Rock Neo --Jacob used as a pillow ----this is what he did with it ---

Genesis 28:18
New Living Translation
The next morning Jacob got up very early. He took the stone he had rested his head against, and he set it upright as a memorial pillar. Then he poured olive oil over it.

 

[Luce NDs]

I only believe in the magic of cognizance ... one minister stated that this was related to sol ... the only thing that can know itself ... thus in a domain set on pickling and preserving soul and it's offspring (th'ot) ... this remains an unknown idealism ... kinda Godlike as pseudographica ... near visions of things beyond mortal perspective?

Said to be spoken of from some devil spouting kerygma from the top of a stone foundation in Greek myths ... Nous test?

Is it magic in the flood of lies we live in that a mortal can be aware of any virtue? Some appear not ... to be! Aware ... that is ...

 

[revjohn]

While it is true that Christianity looks upon the scriptures as the story we find ourselves in it is not true that scripture is about us. And by us I mean humanity in general. Sure, we are a common plot element but the narrative of our faith is the narrative of God's redeeming history. How we screw things up and how God seeks to undo the damage we have done.

To that end the character, or lack thereof, in any human element in our faith narrative serves one overarching purpose and that is to account for how things have gone off of the rails and provide a backdrop for how God intends to correct the problem.

Saul is a response to the desire of the people to have a King like every other nation. David is a response to the mess that Saul becomes and so on and so on and so on until we get to Jesus who manages to redeem the big problem.

Most of the epistles are followers of Christ Jesus trying to help redeem the smaller problems we make for ourselves.

So yes, God consistently chooses folk who are far from stellar examples of what we expect the faithfully devout to look like. Which is the point really. How can you and I find ourselves in a book populated by saints of God who are always morally upright and pure?

Denial?

Yeah, I suppose that could work.

Apart from that we see God at work redeeming the screw-up and we maybe say to ourselves, "Gee, I'm not half as screwed up as all that maybe God can also redeem the situation I find myself in." If we note that we are not half as screwed up and immediately jump to not needing God to work redemption within us then the real conclusion is that we do not know how screwed up we really are.

I am mindful that many of the human agents in scripture occupy the same head space, thinking that we are okay but everyone else is screwed up.

 

[Luce NDs]

Passive objective conflict in space where L'uv & war is fair marketplace?

 

[Delightful Life]

To maybe put a bit of another spin on the OP topic.

This is a story and it is the story of the founding of a people. Having the main character be a bit of a s**t (a) makes the story more interesting and (b) telegraphs the message that being human is a messy business and moral perfection is simply not going to be found anywhere. Having your tribes founder be less than flawless captures his humanity and that of your people. There are, of course, meanings to be gleaned from some his failings, too.

And it also isnt afraid to show how life is...
As well as being great
It is BRUTAL

Ps nice riff

 

[Delightful Life]

Reality doesn't especially care what we insist "has" to be.

And that's part of your Belief System which guides and colours all yer actions...