Revisiting Mark

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
Status
Not open for further replies.
unsafe said:
I say ---Just my view ------Yes they did need to have the parable explained to them -----for me this shows the Disciples who follow Jesus didn't always get the Spiritual meaning that is intended right away --The secrets of the Kingdom will always come through the Spiritual realm ----and that takes time to acquire such knowledge and wisdom --So Jesus explains the parable to the Disciples so they can gain that knowledge and wisdom that is needed to be understanding of the secrets of the Kingdom -----
Click to expand...
It is a kind of process, then? Maybe the twelve are not all at the same level in their spiritual development at any particular time.
 
Mendalla said:
The tension between Jesus the Divine, casting out spirits, healing bodies, and dispensing wisdom, and Jesus the Man, vulnerable and emotional, comes out really well at times in these accounts. It is interesting that modern accounts always seem to lean into the human side (JC Superstar comes to mind since I was watching clips from the arena tour featuring Melanie C and Tim Minchin) and often treat the divine element as something alien.
Click to expand...
In my religious upbringing, I was taught that Jesus was fully human and fully divine. But I think we focused more on his ethical teachings than anything else. I see this as arising from the human side of Jesus but I suppose one could argue for divine inspiration here.
 
Is there a difference between an apostle and a disciple? Are we disciples? because we are often confused what the message is. ;)
Sometimes it seems Jesus packed alot of messages into his parables?
 
paradox3 said:
I suppose one could argue for divine inspiration here.
Click to expand...

But being full divine has to be about more than inspiration, doesn't it? Anyone can be inspired by the divine. But to BE divine is something attributed only to Jesus (and arguably Krishna but his historicity is more iffy even than Jesus).
 
Waterfall said:
Is there a difference between an apostle and a disciple? Are we disciples?
Click to expand...

Apostle is from the Greek "send forth" and disciple from "learn". So a disciple is learning from Jesus, an apostle is sent forth by Jesus. Are we today called to go forth in Jesus' name, or just to learn? Or does learning come first, until we are ready to "go forth"? It could be steps on a ladder.
 
Moving to the content of the parables, anyone else catch that 3 out of the 4 have seeds as their core metaphor? I find that quite interesting because there's a couple possibly symbolisms here.
  • All of these use the seed in some way as a metaphor for how Jesus sees the Kingdom. A seed (the Word) falls on fertile ground (those who are receptive to the message) and grows. A tiny seed grows into a huge tree (I use mustard seeds in cooking and, yeah, they are tiny). So the image is of a seed planted growing into something. Jesus' teaching? The small group he is assembling?
  • A seed is sometimes seen as a symbol of resurrection. They can remain dormant for years and even centuries (we have germinated seeds from Egyptian tombs). In the days before humans really understood the biology behind seeds, they may well have seemed to be dead things coming back to life.
Jesus teaching here focuses more on the first, at least on the overt level. But could Jesus, or at least Mark, have had the second in mind as well?
 
In addition to all the nature references mentioned earlier, (seas, mountains, etc) the gospels give us stories about seeds, parables about vineyards, a miracle involving wine . . .
 
Waterfall ---I say--- to be an apostle --you have to have witnessed Jesus Himself -----there are no apostles today --

Strong's Concordance
apostolos: a messenger, one sent on a mission, an apostle
Original Word: ἀπόστολος, ου, ὁ

Definition: a messenger, one sent on a mission, an apostle
Usage: a messenger, ,a delegate; specially, an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ ("apostle") (with miraculous powers) -- apostle, messenger, he that is sent. especially a man sent out by Jesus Christ Himself to preach the Gospel; an apostle.


Paul had to defend his apostleship ---Paul actually witnessed Jesus on the road to Damascus


Galatians 1 (GW)
Jesus Alone Gave Paul the Good News He Spreads

15 But God, who appointed me before I was born and who called me by his kindness, was pleased 16 to show me his Son. He did this so that I would tell people who are not Jewish that his Son is the Good News.
 
That's a pretty good point. But could someone not have a Damascus experience today? Jesus appears in a vision and claims them as an apostle?
 
Other than the historic "Apostles' Creed" I don't really hear anyone using the term "apostle" these days.

What about "disciple"? Are there present day disciples? Various churches seem to use this terminology nowadays.

Is a "disciple" the same as a "follower", do we think? The original connotation seems to be more of learning than following, but these two things are closely related.
 
Mendalla -----you said ----But could someone not have a Damascus experience today?

just my view here
Well for me I personally don't think so --as all is finished ----Paul was the last so the Gentiles could be grafted in with the Jews and have the Good News preached to them ---The Holy Spirit was given to us by Jesus when we receive Jesus in our Hearts ------no need for Jesus to appear to us today in His Spiritual Form like He did with Paul -----and we have the whole word of God now to learn from and the word is Jesus ---the apostles only had the Old Testament at that time ---
 
unsafe said:
Mendalla -----you said ----But could someone not have a Damascus experience today?

just my view here
Well for me I personally don't think so --as all is finished ----Paul was the last so the Gentiles could be grafted in with the Jews and have the Good News preached to them ---The Holy Spirit was given to us by Jesus when we receive Jesus in our Hearts ------no need for Jesus to appear to us today in His Spiritual Form like He did with Paul -----and we have the whole word of God now to learn from and the word is Jesus ---the apostles only had the Old Testament at that time ---
Click to expand...

Fair enough. That makes perfect sense.
 
Do we use the word Disciple today ----I personally haven't heard it being used -----I hear mostly I am a Follower of Christ ----but as you will see below being a Disciple is not a surface learner ----it is not just talking the talk ----it is all about walking the talk and following through with the right lifestyle ------


This is the Greek word for Disciple ----

Strong's Concordance
mathétés: a disciple
Usage: a learner, disciple, pupil.
3101 mathētḗs (from math-, the "mental effort needed to think something through") – properly, a learner; a disciple, a follower of Christ who learns the doctrines of Scripture and the lifestyle they require; someone catechized with proper instruction from the Bible with its necessary follow-through (life-applications). See also 3100 /mathēteúō ("to disciple").
 
unsafe said:
Do we use the word Disciple today ----I personally haven't heard it being used -----I hear mostly I am a Follower of Christ ----but as you will see below being a Disciple is not a surface learner ----it is not just talking the talk ----it is all about walking the talk and following through with the right lifestyle ------


This is the Greek word for Disciple ----

Strong's Concordance
mathétés: a disciple
Usage: a learner, disciple, pupil.
3101 mathētḗs (from math-, the "mental effort needed to think something through") – properly, a learner; a disciple, a follower of Christ who learns the doctrines of Scripture and the lifestyle they require; someone catechized with proper instruction from the Bible with its necessary follow-through (life-applications). See also 3100 /mathēteúō ("to disciple").
Click to expand...

So by that definition, one could be a follower without being a disciple but all disciples would, by definition, be followers. Broader term, narrower term basically.
 
Mendalla said:
So by that definition, one could be a follower without being a disciple but all disciples would, by definition, be followers. Broader term, narrower term basically.
Click to expand...
I was actually thinking along these lines earlier today.

At my former church (2005 - 2012) we had a document entitled "Discipleship Guidelines" which I really liked. It had been put together as part of a renewal initiative just before I arrived.
 
paradox3 said:
Is a "disciple" the same as a "follower", do we think?

My view
I say ----A dedicated Follower of Christ would be the same as a disciple in my view ------they would know the scriptures well and have Faith in the scriptures and follow a life style that is laid out in the Scriptures and would produce the fruit of that following -----

I say ---many can say they follow Christ but if they don't know the scriptures and they don't adhere to what they say and live the life style of a follower that produces the right fruit ----then the words they say are just that ---words--- with nothing to show that they really do follow Christ -----
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top