Resolution - to read the Bible

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
Seeler said:
For instance in one battle David's men are said to have killed 47,000 Armean fighting men. That's a lot. I also note that horses and chariots are mentioned more frequently than in earlier wars.
Click to expand...

Ancient accounts of battles often exaggerated. Even actual historians like Herodotus and Tacitus were guilty of it and the "history" parts of the Bible aren't even in that league. They are more mythologized history than history in the sense of a factual narrative.

As for horse and chariots being mentioned more frequently, I'd have to read up on it, but tactics and choice of weapons did vary from culture to culture and period to period due to technological developments. Perhaps the Hebrews picked up chariot fighting from another culture somewhere along the way, hence the lack of mention earlier.

crazyheart said:
Seeler, do you consider this our history?
Click to expand...

It is definitely part of the history of the Western World, to be sure, though most of it took place in what is properly called the Near East. So it is "our" history up to a point, though perhaps less so than, say, the history of the Greeks. How much of it is factual history, versus exaggerated, mythologized history is probably the bigger question.
 
Seeler said:
Chronicles doesn't seem to have a parallel to 2 Samuel 9 which tells of David searching oout Saul's only surviving family member - Saul''s grandson, Jonathan's crippled son, Mephibosheth. David brings him home to eat at David's table, and restores Saul's land to Mephibosheth. Ruthless warrior? or Gentle Caregiver?
Click to expand...

Or a man mourning his beloved (Jonathan), and protecting Jonathan's vulnerable child.
 
Crazyheart:

Mendalla said:
It is definitely part of the history of the Western World, to be sure, though most of it took place in what is properly called the Near East. So it is "our" history up to a point, though perhaps less so than, say, the history of the Greeks. How much of it is factual history, versus exaggerated, mythologized history is probably the bigger question.
Click to expand...


I agree with Mendalla. It is part of our history. I am sure that the story (history) of the Hebrew people had much more influence on who I am and how I think than the Norse myths or Celtic tales.
 
Psalms 65-67 / 69-70

2 Sam 11 - 12 - the familiar story of David and Bathsheba, Nathan's parable pointing out David's sin and punishment. An innocent baby dies.
None of this is found in Chronicles 20. Both books describe more fighting to secure the borders and subdue the neighbouring peoples.
 
Seeler said:
Psalms 65-67 / 69-70

2 Sam 11 - 12 - the familiar story of David and Bathsheba, Nathan's parable pointing out David's sin and punishment. An innocent baby dies.
None of this is found in Chronicles 20. Both books describe more fighting to secure the borders and subdue the neighbouring peoples.
Click to expand...

Conflict is upmost in the human psyche ... goes with the myth/story!
 
Seeler said:
Crazyheart:
I agree with Mendalla. It is part of our history. I am sure that the story (history) of the Hebrew people had much more influence on who I am and how I think than the Norse myths or Celtic tales.
Click to expand...

I would say that the Bible (Hebrew and Christian parts) ranks high among the influences on modern (post-Renaissance) Western culture since the advent of Christianity. Perhaps at the top.

Classical philosophy and literature is next, possibly equal in some areas to the Bible. Aristotle and the Hellenistic philosophers like the Stoics are perhaps the most influential, but Plato is still strong and even the pre-Socratics remain influential in some areas (e.g. Pythagoras in mathematics).

Medieval Islamic philosophy is probably next. Algebra, optics, and some other key areas of science and maths began with the Arabs, who also brought "0" to the West after it was first developed in India. They also preserved a lot of Greek writing that was lost in Europe, and developed their own influential schools of philosophy from it.

The influence of Norse, Germanic, and Celtic history and mythology tended to be more subtle until recent times when modern writers have rediscovered them and started writing about them again. They have their place as an influence, to be sure, but as obviously and not to the same degree as the ones above them.
 
Psalms 32 / 51 / 86 / 122 - Songs of praise for the glory of God, and pleas for forgiveness for sins and protection from enemies. Especially potent is #51 when Nathan the prophet came to him after the affair with Bathsheba.
Nathan gave David God's forgiveness but told David that peace would never come to his house. The next reading from 2 Samuel tells of David's son Anmon raping his half-sister Tamar, Tamar's brother Absalom killing Anmon in revenge and fleeing for refuge until Nathan advises David to bring him home again. Eventually we find Absalom plotting a challenge for David's throne.
A nice family?! It seems that David's lust for many wives and columbines has resulted in many offspring with different mothers. Anmon's lust for his half-sister got him killed. Both found out that being king, or the king's first-born heir, does not entitle you to do whatever you want. And Absalom's lust for power has split the family into two waring parts.
Still in this difficult situation I find the prophet Nathan explaining to David the nature of God: 14:14 "We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up. But God will not take away a life; he will devise plans so as not to keep an outcast banished forever from his presence." This speaks to me of consequences that happen even when their is forgiveness.
I wonder how the sex scandals and power struggles and thinking that might makes right and the law does not apply to those on top that we read about in the Hebrew scriptures compare to the scandals we read about on facebook or in the news. Does anything ever change?
 
Psalms 3-4 / 12-13 / 28 / 55 - suplications for God's help and protection
2 Samuel 16 - 18 - the continuing story of David and his son Absalom. David flees Jerusalem with his supporters and Absalom gains support of much of Israel who declare him king. However in a major battle between David's supporters and Absalom's, David's followers are victorious. Israel's armies are scattered and Absalom is killed. David mourns for AAbsalom.
Here I see a father's love for his son, even when his son turns against him. I think of the parents of all the young people who get themselves into trouble - even the parents of murderers - how it must break their hearts. If parents can continue to love and forgive, how much more do you think God can continue to love God's children even when they rebel against God.
 
A loving and caring God, IMO, won't burn people up or

I have never seen God not forgive someone. Of course this is not

the Old Testament God who kills and smotes , and drowns.

Maybe we only need the New Testament.:whistle::whistle::ROFLMAO:
 
crazyheart said:
A loving and caring God, IMO, won't burn people up or

I have never seen God not forgive someone. Of course this is not

the Old Testament God who kills and smotes , and drowns.

Maybe we only need the New Testament.:whistle::whistle::ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...

Yet it is in the Old Testament that we find this story of David as the loving, grieving father.
 
Will nothing put out fires better than nothing reaching peak conditions in the Shadows followed by exhaustion?

If the human psyche exhausts mortal resources will the entire thing collapse ... thus extending into immortal dimensions ... things generally unknown ... mysteries that the determined will not admit!

If you suggest what they don't know ... they tend to flare ... an odd response given what the enlightened claim about Golden Rules ... balance in the given take?

Of course word can be deceptive due to variance ... this should be understood to have reason ...
 
More Psalms: 26 / 40 / 58 / 61 / 62 / 64 / and 5 / 38 / 41 / 42

2nd Sam. 19 - 21 - intrigue, double-crossing, etc. in the court and the army as David is reinstalled as king of Israel. (note here - sometimes Israel refers to all the tribes and their lands, and sometimes just to the ten northern tribes, and Judea the southern ones. Sometimes context clarifies which is meant in a passage: but there always seems to be some tension between the north and south).
This reading contains the horrific story of David, seeking peace with the Gibeonites, turns over seven descendents of Saul to be executed. These include five sons of Saul's daughter Merab, and two sons of his concubine Rizpah. Rizpah keeps the birds and animals away from the bodies as they are hung up for display. Lots of violence in Samuel contrasting with the beauty of the Psalms.
 
I think that Rizpah's story is one of the most neglected in the Bible. I am quite sure it is not part of the lectionary and, like Crazyheart, I don't remember ever hearing anyone preach on it.
Rizpah was Saul's concubine; a difficult position to be in. He already had a wife and six children (Jonathan, Merab and Michel his daughters, and three younger boys), when he brought Rizpah into his life. A wife had status, especially if an alliance with her father was important; a bride price had been paid, a celebration of some sort marked the occasion of the wedding; her sons were in line for their father's position. A concubine seems more like a common-law wife. She had no status beside the wife. Her sons were, at best, spares for the heirs.

(In the novel I've drafted about David's wives I have Rizpah shunned by Saul's wife and also by his two daughters who are not much younger than she is. At one point I have Saul's daughters married and living in a small village near Saul's capital while David and Saul are off fighting each other and/or the Philistines or other tribes. When Merab dies after the birth of her fifth son, I have Michel (who is barren) raise her sisters boys.
When Saul and his sons are killed in battle, Rizpah flees the capital with her two sons and settles in the village. After David reclaims Michel as his wife, she has to return to the capital leaving her 5 nephews behind. Rizpah befriends them and becomes like a mother to them. )

When David rounds up Saul's descendants - 2 sons by Rizpah, 5 grandsons by Merab - and hands them over to another tribe to be executed, Rizpah defends their bodies which have been hung out for display. How great her love; how overwhelming her despair, as she defends not only her son's bodies but those of her rivals. Surely this is as real and important as David's love and grief for Absalom, yet we celebrate David's love in story and psalms while Rizpah's is forgotten.
 
Seeler said:
I think that Rizpah's story is one of the most neglected in the Bible. I am quite sure it is not part of the lectionary and, like Crazyheart, I don't remember ever hearing anyone preach on it.
Rizpah was Saul's concubine; a difficult position to be in. He already had a wife and six children (Jonathan, Merab and Michel his daughters, and three younger boys), when he brought Rizpah into his life. A wife had status, especially if an alliance with her father was important; a bride price had been paid, a celebration of some sort marked the occasion of the wedding; her sons were in line for their father's position. A concubine seems more like a common-law wife. She had no status beside the wife. Her sons were, at best, spares for the heirs.

(In the novel I've drafted about David's wives I have Rizpah shunned by Saul's wife and also by his two daughters who are not much younger than she is. At one point I have Saul's daughters married and living in a small village near Saul's capital while David and Saul are off fighting each other and/or the Philistines or other tribes. When Merab dies after the birth of her fifth son, I have Michel (who is barren) raise her sisters boys.
When Saul and his sons are killed in battle, Rizpah flees the capital with her two sons and settles in the village. After David reclaims Michel as his wife, she has to return to the capital leaving her 5 nephews behind. Rizpah befriends them and becomes like a mother to them. )

When David rounds up Saul's descendants - 2 sons by Rizpah, 5 grandsons by Merab - and hands them over to another tribe to be executed, Rizpah defends their bodies which have been hung out for display. How great her love; how overwhelming her despair, as she defends not only her son's bodies but those of her rivals. Surely this is as real and important as David's love and grief for Absalom, yet we celebrate David's love in story and psalms while Rizpah's is forgotten.
Click to expand...

Do these stories hint at brute herding instincts from animal times .. restricting the mother spirit form free compounding I.E. outside bullish control methods?

To me it appears to go against the 6th command ... the twists and bends in the path go on with pain for the straight liners ... contrary to how Ba'aL eMs ass saved the Lords? Thus additional cover-up ... and the alternate soul is unseen ... tis thought!

Is vast respect in eternal need? And we mist it ... cause we hate such restriction for the powers ... and we all have a sliver of thought that we have it (the power) ... when it's not Sous ... tis hypo ... like medusa ... poorly understood myth .. with parallel .. tis parallelism! A line beyond where we confine ourselves ...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top