blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
My agreement was with his view on the Holy Spirit it had absolutely nothing to do with you
Resolution - to read the Bible
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My agreement was with his view on the Holy Spirit it had absolutely nothing to do with you
What I found amusing blackbelt were the words of @airclean33 - "Come on Jae put GODS Word" together."
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
airclean33
Well-Known Member
It is my understanding that the Holy Spirit didn't "in dwell" within others until after Pentecost which is 50 days after the resurrection. Before that the Holy Spirit came "upon" some, but not an indwelling.
So Jesus was still alive while talking to Nicodemus and the Holy Spirit hadn't come yet.
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, what do you think?
Like illumination to a tree ... growth? Well doesn't that blast all ...
No problem airclean, I just found your wording amusing.
airclean33
Well-Known Member
Anyone who can read . Can read GODS WORD". Ah "but understanding it , is something different. GOD Teaches His Word to Humankind. With HIM," is the only way to really understand."
To me - the most important thing is not us reading God's word as a way to learn precepts and doctrines. Rather - it is the way that God acts through his word. I believe God uses his word to give and strengthen faith.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
Correct does that make Jesus teaching on the subject somehow of no avail ?
Some people are enlightened of the heavy handed stuff ... then off they go ... abstract as sky developing Azure state from night ... T*wo tonality of impulse ... ahs impact and momentum on the split ... one part knowing the alternate unknowing ... constantly shedding ... a hairy situation ...
revjohn
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="blackbelt1961]
scripture also answers that question
John 7:39,
John 16:7
John 20:22
Acts 1:5
[/QUOTE]
Well.
If proof-texting supports the notion, "No, the Jews can not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them."
What do we do with texts like the following?
Genesis 41: 38
Exodus 31: 1-3
Numbers 24: 2
1 Samuel 10: 9-12
Honestly, I think that folk when discussing who the Holy Spirit may or may not indwell forget a great part of the lesson that Jesus shares with Nicodemus in John 3.
The word translated "wind" in John 3: 8 is the same word which is later, in the very same verse rendered Spirit so we should be exceedingly careful about jumping to conclusions.
The wind/Spirit blows where IT chooses. If it chooses to blow into Joseph that is what it has chosen. If it chooses to blow into Bezalel that is who it has chosen. If it chooses to blow into Balaam that is who it has chosen. If it chooses to blow into Saul that is who it has chosen. Not surprisingly, none of these Jews qualifies as Messianic.
Any Christian who would dare read these texts and say that the Spirit at work in these passages is not the Holy Spirit are guilty of blasphemy since the text clearly reveals that the Spirit acting is the Spirit of God and that Spirit cannot be anything other than Holy.
Which is not me arguing that Pentecost was not significant. It is me suggesting that many Christians miss the significance of Pentecost and what it really means for God to pour out his grace upon all flesh because they are too busy looking at the ways they demonstrate the power entrusted to them. In that way, Pentecost is less about what God has done and more about "look what I can do."
The biggest difference with respect to Pentecost is not that the Holy Spirit blows where it chooses to blow so much as it is who can now feel it.
scripture also answers that question
John 7:39,
John 16:7
John 20:22
Acts 1:5
[/QUOTE]
Well.
If proof-texting supports the notion, "No, the Jews can not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them."
What do we do with texts like the following?
Genesis 41: 38
Exodus 31: 1-3
Numbers 24: 2
1 Samuel 10: 9-12
Honestly, I think that folk when discussing who the Holy Spirit may or may not indwell forget a great part of the lesson that Jesus shares with Nicodemus in John 3.
John 3: 8 said:
The word translated "wind" in John 3: 8 is the same word which is later, in the very same verse rendered Spirit so we should be exceedingly careful about jumping to conclusions.
The wind/Spirit blows where IT chooses. If it chooses to blow into Joseph that is what it has chosen. If it chooses to blow into Bezalel that is who it has chosen. If it chooses to blow into Balaam that is who it has chosen. If it chooses to blow into Saul that is who it has chosen. Not surprisingly, none of these Jews qualifies as Messianic.
Any Christian who would dare read these texts and say that the Spirit at work in these passages is not the Holy Spirit are guilty of blasphemy since the text clearly reveals that the Spirit acting is the Spirit of God and that Spirit cannot be anything other than Holy.
Which is not me arguing that Pentecost was not significant. It is me suggesting that many Christians miss the significance of Pentecost and what it really means for God to pour out his grace upon all flesh because they are too busy looking at the ways they demonstrate the power entrusted to them. In that way, Pentecost is less about what God has done and more about "look what I can do."
The biggest difference with respect to Pentecost is not that the Holy Spirit blows where it chooses to blow so much as it is who can now feel it.
airclean33
Well-Known Member
Good Morning Jae--
- I am wondering Jae do you know that YeShua came as a Lamb," because GOD The Father," told Him to. He was far more than a Lamb" . To understand this ,you need, GODS HOLY Spirit" so you may understand ". Reading one or two lines in GODS Word may help . But understanding comes from GOD teaching His mean Himself. We believe in a Living GOD". Then when you say to a Christian GOD will teach you . They say WHAT".
Seeler
Well-Known Member
I am not up to trying to understand airclean's interpretation of the Holy Spirit.
Right now I am focusing on reading Exodus and trying to understand what it meant when it was written and what it means for me now.
I searched for the answer to my question on post #74. The commentaries I found on line seem to agree that the line about first born sons being given to the Lord is not about child sacrifice (similar to the first fruits and animals that are given to God). The first born is to be given to the Lord, but can be redeemed. I missed this back in Exodus 13: 13b 'Every first-born male among your children you shall redeem.' So no child sacrifice required.
I must be more careful in my reading.
But right now I must get back to my message for Sunday - based on Mark 1: 14-20 - nothing from Exodus. And this afternoon I have a meeting with my Parkinsons support group. I do hope to find time to read through the next three chapters of Exodus for today - I don't want to fall behind this early in the year.
Right now I am focusing on reading Exodus and trying to understand what it meant when it was written and what it means for me now.
I searched for the answer to my question on post #74. The commentaries I found on line seem to agree that the line about first born sons being given to the Lord is not about child sacrifice (similar to the first fruits and animals that are given to God). The first born is to be given to the Lord, but can be redeemed. I missed this back in Exodus 13: 13b 'Every first-born male among your children you shall redeem.' So no child sacrifice required.
I must be more careful in my reading.
But right now I must get back to my message for Sunday - based on Mark 1: 14-20 - nothing from Exodus. And this afternoon I have a meeting with my Parkinsons support group. I do hope to find time to read through the next three chapters of Exodus for today - I don't want to fall behind this early in the year.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Thanks for sharing, Seeler...As always, I appreciate both your insights and the spirit with which you gain them. I am involved in a 2-year Bible study organized by some of the ministers in our Presbytery. It is filled with much wonder and even more questions. But I am learning/feeling a lot as I go through it. I also belong to a book club and last night we talked about a book by Lynn Austin. Sometimes historical fiction can be particularly inspiring. She got me interested in reading Nehemiah.
airclean33
Well-Known Member
AIRCLEAN-POST- Hi RevJohn- I hope you and your family are well. That you also like your new post posting. --Gord.
Well.
If proof-texting supports the notion, "No, the Jews can not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them."
What do we do with texts like the following?
Genesis 41: 38
Exodus 31: 1-3
Numbers 24: 2
1 Samuel 10: 9-12
Airclean---post---
Well John Here I believe your right and wrong.
Number one wrong , 3-4 Wrong. These are GOD speaking to them . Not Infilling of GODS Spirit.
Number two is right , As Moses needed help in administering to Israel. So GOD did chose Men to help him . And gave them the Holy Spirit to help GODS People".
--John--post---
Honestly, I think that folk when discussing who the Holy Spirit may or may not indwell forget a great part of the lesson that Jesus shares with Nicodemus in John 3.
--Airclean--POST--
Yes John I have read this many times. I also believe you to be an Honest Person.
--John post---
The word translated "wind" in John 3: 8 is the same word which is later, in the very same verse rendered Spirit so we should be exceedingly careful about jumping to conclusions.
Please pay Attention more to John3: 35--36-37 !--
--Airclean--post --
John 3-8 Dose not say the Spirit is called the wind. It said like the wind
Again John you and I can agree with careful about jumping to conclusions.
You see John I have never started John 3: Halfway down the chapter. Should we not start at John 3: 1?
Jhn 3:1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicode'mus, a ruler of the Jews.
Jhn 3:2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do, unless God is with him."
Airclean one of Two parts
Well.
If proof-texting supports the notion, "No, the Jews can not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them."
What do we do with texts like the following?
Genesis 41: 38
Exodus 31: 1-3
Numbers 24: 2
1 Samuel 10: 9-12
Airclean---post---
Well John Here I believe your right and wrong.
Number one wrong , 3-4 Wrong. These are GOD speaking to them . Not Infilling of GODS Spirit.
Number two is right , As Moses needed help in administering to Israel. So GOD did chose Men to help him . And gave them the Holy Spirit to help GODS People".
--John--post---
Honestly, I think that folk when discussing who the Holy Spirit may or may not indwell forget a great part of the lesson that Jesus shares with Nicodemus in John 3.
--Airclean--POST--
Yes John I have read this many times. I also believe you to be an Honest Person.
--John post---
The word translated "wind" in John 3: 8 is the same word which is later, in the very same verse rendered Spirit so we should be exceedingly careful about jumping to conclusions.
Please pay Attention more to John3: 35--36-37 !--
--Airclean--post --
John 3-8 Dose not say the Spirit is called the wind. It said like the wind
Again John you and I can agree with careful about jumping to conclusions.
You see John I have never started John 3: Halfway down the chapter. Should we not start at John 3: 1?
Jhn 3:1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicode'mus, a ruler of the Jews.
Airclean one of Two parts
Last edited:
airclean33
Well-Known Member
Number Two PART-----
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Jhn 3:4 Nicode'mus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jhn 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born anew.'
Do you teach this Rev John?
--John--Post.--
The wind/Spirit blows where IT chooses. If it chooses to blow into Joseph that is what it has chosen. If it chooses to blow into Bezalel that is who it has chosen. If it chooses to blow into Balaam that is who it has chosen. If it chooses to blow into Saul that is who it has chosen. Not surprisingly, none of these Jews qualifies as Messianic.
--Airclean--post --As far as I know these Israelites did not have the infilling of GODS Holy Spirit . They had a Touch , Moses" how ever did have the Holy Spirit in him. At least I Believe. For He could talk with GOD" and God" with him".
---John--post---
Any Christian who would dare read these texts and say that the Spirit at work in these passages is not the Holy Spirit are guilty of blasphemy since the text clearly reveals that the Spirit acting is the Spirit of God and that Spirit cannot be anything other than Holy.
--Airclean--post--
I did not say this" , I said some had only a Touch of GOD", or a Helping , Hand if you want. I don't believe Rev . That you can understand ,how GODS Infilling of His Holy Spirit" works. I Get this only by what you post John . So I may be wrong. Have you had other Christians lay hands," on and pray for you?
--John--post---
Which is not me arguing that Pentecost was not significant. It is me suggesting that many Christians miss the significance of Pentecost and what it really means for God to pour out his grace upon all flesh because they are too busy looking at the ways they demonstrate the power entrusted to them. In that way, Pentecost is less about what God has done and more about "look what I can do."
----Airclean--post---
I am sorry you feel this way John . I feel you have once more got it wrong John". The Holy Spirit was for those in the upper room, and to those who Received it were those who the YeShua" had save already. What ever they did that day" . There were 3,000 Souls added to the church that Night.
--John--post--
The biggest difference with respect to Pentecost is not that the Holy Spirit blows where it chooses to blow so much as it is who can now feel it.
[/QUOTE]--Airclean--post--
FEEL IT--John--Ha Ha" ---Please take my word John , YOU will feel it, the feeling can hardly, be explained John. You will see many things different John ". We know an understand so little about this wonderful GOD" we belong to". I have a feeling we are just starting to understand HIM" . Think John if you were GOD who could explain better to us, WHO, AND WHAT" , we are"and . Then WHO" AND WHAT," HE IS". I don't think we have the mind's to understand yet". But He will give us Minds" that can understand". AND ALL GLORY WOULD HAVE BEEN HIS".
Mat 14:29 He said, "Come." So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus;
Do you teach this Rev John?
--John--Post.--
The wind/Spirit blows where IT chooses. If it chooses to blow into Joseph that is what it has chosen. If it chooses to blow into Bezalel that is who it has chosen. If it chooses to blow into Balaam that is who it has chosen. If it chooses to blow into Saul that is who it has chosen. Not surprisingly, none of these Jews qualifies as Messianic.
--Airclean--post --As far as I know these Israelites did not have the infilling of GODS Holy Spirit . They had a Touch , Moses" how ever did have the Holy Spirit in him. At least I Believe. For He could talk with GOD" and God" with him".
---John--post---
Any Christian who would dare read these texts and say that the Spirit at work in these passages is not the Holy Spirit are guilty of blasphemy since the text clearly reveals that the Spirit acting is the Spirit of God and that Spirit cannot be anything other than Holy.
--Airclean--post--
I did not say this" , I said some had only a Touch of GOD", or a Helping , Hand if you want. I don't believe Rev . That you can understand ,how GODS Infilling of His Holy Spirit" works. I Get this only by what you post John . So I may be wrong. Have you had other Christians lay hands," on and pray for you?
--John--post---
Which is not me arguing that Pentecost was not significant. It is me suggesting that many Christians miss the significance of Pentecost and what it really means for God to pour out his grace upon all flesh because they are too busy looking at the ways they demonstrate the power entrusted to them. In that way, Pentecost is less about what God has done and more about "look what I can do."
----Airclean--post---
I am sorry you feel this way John . I feel you have once more got it wrong John". The Holy Spirit was for those in the upper room, and to those who Received it were those who the YeShua" had save already. What ever they did that day" . There were 3,000 Souls added to the church that Night.
--John--post--
The biggest difference with respect to Pentecost is not that the Holy Spirit blows where it chooses to blow so much as it is who can now feel it.
[/QUOTE]--Airclean--post--
FEEL IT--John--Ha Ha" ---Please take my word John , YOU will feel it, the feeling can hardly, be explained John. You will see many things different John ". We know an understand so little about this wonderful GOD" we belong to". I have a feeling we are just starting to understand HIM" . Think John if you were GOD who could explain better to us, WHO, AND WHAT" , we are"and . Then WHO" AND WHAT," HE IS". I don't think we have the mind's to understand yet". But He will give us Minds" that can understand". AND ALL GLORY WOULD HAVE BEEN HIS".
Mat 14:29 He said, "Come." So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus;
Hmm... would think he understands a little about it after years in seminary and decades in ministry.
