Question: False Service Dogs

[BetteTheRed]

Is there some rising incidence in small primates as pets in the Maritimes that has flown under the radar of us elsewhere? Or was the Dragon thinking of rodents? Like bunnies, ferrets, pet rats? There's a lovely old fellow in town who goes everywhere, most of the year, with his parrot on his shoulder (under his coat if it's cold). When he brings it in the store, he just tucks it into his shirt if he thinks anyone will object.

 

[ChemGal]

I personally like to see people bring service animals to church - whether or not they are certified or companion dogs.

Does service animals mean something different there?
Here, it is only dogs for those with disabilities, and then military/police service animals which are defined slightly differently - ie. I've never heard a member of the canine unit be referred to as a 'service dog' without police being immediately before that. There is no such thing as a service cat for someone with a disability that would qualify as a service animal.

I have brought up allergies multiple times, and it's also included with the provincial information - places are required to accommodate for both, so a taxi driver with allergies would have to do a priority call for someone with a service dog, but they would not have to drive the dog themselves. For something like a restaurant it is recommended to do something like seat them as far apart as possible.

 

[Pinga]

As far as I know all service dogs are certified.

There are also dogs which are trained to visit seniors homes and hospitals, sometimes referred to as therapy dogs.
They do NOT have the same rights as service dogs.

Difference Between a Therapy Dog vs a Service Dog


In this case, the dog is neither -- has had no formal training.
It is also wearing a false service coat.

 

[Seeler]

I was thinking a couple of cases where people regularly brought their dogs into the church.

One was a homeless man with a fairly large mutt. They were inseparable. He would sleep outside if he couldn't find a room to rent that would allow the dog. He shared his meals with it. And he brought it to church. He sat alone in a back pew with the gate closed. Most people in the church were unaware of the dog's presence except when it accompanied him up the aisle when he went forward for communion. When this man had to go into hospital, his big concern was that his friends look after the dog. When he died, his friends had a heartbroken dog put down.

And the other was a middle-aged woman was obvious mental and physical challenges. She brought her small dog with her and held it on her lap during worship. I understand that she lived out of town and got driving on Sundays to attend church and spend the rest of the day with her elderly parents. Having the dog with her gave her a sense of security and relieved her of the worry of leaving it alone for the day. Again only those who sat near her were aware of his presence.

My third example of a companion animal is more recent. One of our church members moved into a garden apartment in an assisted living facility. He was surprised when told that he couldn't bring his small dog with him. He went to his family doctor and got a paper stating that he required the dog to calm his nerves. So he now has a companion dog: so far he has not brought him to church and I don't think he means to.

Dogs {and cats) can provide valuable services calming the nervous or excited, providing companionship for the lonely, giving meaning and purpose to people's lives.

 

[Seeler]

I don't know that he personally, but I have seen TV programs where monkeys were trained to assist people confined to wheelchairs. The monkey could act as arms and hands - picking up anything that was beyond reach (ie the book dropped on the floor, were remote control); turning on or off the lamp; getting something from the fridge.

 

[revjohn]

Would you
a) say nothing
b) speak up and challenge the person
c) say anything to church leadership

b1) initially I would ask what service the dog provides. Noting discipline lapses I might ask if the dog has been fully trained. Finding out that the vest is a subterfuge I would ask why the deceit is felt to be necessary.

Action taken would depend on the information I have to work with.

 

[ChemGal]

b1) initially I would ask what service the dog provides. Noting discipline lapses I might ask if the dog has been fully trained. Finding out that the vest is a subterfuge I would ask why the deceit is felt to be necessary.

Action taken would depend on the information I have to work with.

Asking that is questioning one about their disability though. Appropriate for certain relationships, not appropriate for all.

 

[Mrs.Anteater]

I was thinking a couple of cases where people regularly brought their dogs into the church.

One was a homeless man with a fairly large mutt. They were inseparable. He would sleep outside if he couldn't find a room to rent that would allow the dog. He shared his meals with it. And he brought it to church. He sat alone in a back pew with the gate closed. Most people in the church were unaware of the dog's presence except when it accompanied him up the aisle when he went forward for communion. When this man had to go into hospital, his big concern was that his friends look after the dog. When he died, his friends had a heartbroken dog put down.

And the other was a middle-aged woman was obvious mental and physical challenges. She brought her small dog with her and held it on her lap during worship. I understand that she lived out of town and got driving on Sundays to attend church and spend the rest of the day with her elderly parents. Having the dog with her gave her a sense of security and relieved her of the worry of leaving it alone for the day. Again only those who sat near her were aware of his presence.

My third example of a companion animal is more recent. One of our church members moved into a garden apartment in an assisted living facility. He was surprised when told that he couldn't bring his small dog with him. He went to his family doctor and got a paper stating that he required the dog to calm his nerves. So he now has a companion dog: so far he has not brought him to church and I don't think he means to.

Dogs {and cats) can provide valuable services calming the nervous or excited, providing companionship for the lonely, giving meaning and purpose to people's lives.

Meow to that.

 

[revjohn]

Asking that is questioning one about their disability though. Appropriate for certain relationships, not appropriate for all.

Agreed. Sometimes being clergy in a church has an advantage.

In my role as host asking the question is about gaining better information so that I can be a better host.

In somebody else's congregation that would be me crossing boundaries.

I would probably phrase the question in the following manner, "If you do not mind sharing I would be interested in know what your service animal is trained to do." Which gives the handler freedom to not disclose. I would accept that. If I noticed that the service animal was not behaving in a manner consistent with service animals then I might reapproach and reframe the conversation.

A few years back a local restaurant in Brantford faced tremendous backlash after a customer went online and complained that she and her service animal were asked to leave the premises. Social outcry against the restaurant was swift. Upon investigation it was found that the animal in question had falsified certification. When the owner reported that the animal had actually nosed food on a table I wasn't surprised to find that the complaints were fraudulent.

Service animals that are legitimately certified are well-disciplined when working.

If the animal is not behaving in a disciplined manner then it is not likely a trained service animal. Not likely a trained therapy animal either.

I have no objection to companion animals being present. Health codes and other conditions might have objections.

 

[Luce NDs]

There are so many obscurities in life causing conflicts in the humble public ... when the role models do certain darker functions!

 

[chansen]

During the conversation, the person discloses they actually bought the red jacket service dog. The dog has never been trained.
She does tell folks it is a service dog.

What would you do?.

Sorry, I guess I missed this. This actually happened????

That sort of act could contribute to swaying public sentiment against actual service dogs. I'm amazed someone could be that self-centred. This is mild supervillain territory.

I would not initially take it up with the church or organization where I met this person. This person would get an earful from me. Then if this person did not throw out the service dog vest and tear up the card, I'd report them to the police.

The problem is not that the person is misrepresenting their pet as a service dog in the place where I am. The problem is that the person is misrepresenting their pet as a service dog at all.

I didn't know this sort of thing happened, or that the vests could be bought on eBay.

 

[Pinga]

Yes, this is real

 

[ChemGal]

Sorry, I guess I missed this. This actually happened????

That sort of act could contribute to swaying public sentiment against actual service dogs. I'm amazed someone could be that self-centred. This is mild supervillain territory.

I would not initially take it up with the church or organization where I met this person. This person would get an earful from me. Then if this person did not throw out the service dog vest and tear up the card, I'd report them to the police.

The problem is not that the person is misrepresenting their pet as a service dog in the place where I am. The problem is that the person is misrepresenting their pet as a service dog at all.

I didn't know this sort of thing happened, or that the vests could be bought on eBay.

The problem with the vests is that in many places there is nothing official. Not all service dogs wear them, although I think many people use something just so their dog is identified as a service dog.

Yes, sadly the fraudulent service dogs is a thing. I've also come across people looking into it for rentals that don't allow pets and for flying. Some people just feel like they should be able to take their pet wherever they wish, and when they can't they look for loopholes.

 

[ChemGal]

Agreed. Sometimes being clergy in a church has an advantage.

In my role as host asking the question is about gaining better information so that I can be a better host.

In somebody else's congregation that would be me crossing boundaries.

I would probably phrase the question in the following manner, "If you do not mind sharing I would be interested in know what your service animal is trained to do." Which gives the handler freedom to not disclose. I would accept that. If I noticed that the service animal was not behaving in a manner consistent with service animals then I might reapproach and reframe the conversation.

A few years back a local restaurant in Brantford faced tremendous backlash after a customer went online and complained that she and her service animal were asked to leave the premises. Social outcry against the restaurant was swift. Upon investigation it was found that the animal in question had falsified certification. When the owner reported that the animal had actually nosed food on a table I wasn't surprised to find that the complaints were fraudulent.

Service animals that are legitimately certified are well-disciplined when working.

If the animal is not behaving in a disciplined manner then it is not likely a trained service animal. Not likely a trained therapy animal either.

I have no objection to companion animals being present. Health codes and other conditions might have objections.

I've seen that as what businesses should ask in the US. I'm disappointed that Alberta took that information down, but it was actually recommended a business owner/employee not do that, rather ask if the animal is a service animal and ask for ID.

Information is still up that if a service dog is not behaving properly employees do have the right to tell the team to leave.

I do understand though that clergy likely have a bit of a different relationship than what many employees do. Although it all just depends, some employees know their customers pretty well!