Old Question Revisited - Who is Jesus?

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Waterfall said:
And I believe Jesus, should not be confused with legend or mythology. Of course we're all entitled to our opinions. :)

To me one of the greatest historical evidences that Jesus existed, is the Bible itself and the many other books that weren't included.
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I too value these books, and have read many of them, but they aren't historical documents. The Jesus of faith is, of course, a reality to many, me included. But, to me, Jesus is more of an archetype, an idea and ideal. Whether he actually or historically existed exactly as we idealize him is not important to me.
 
Hermann said:
I too value these books, and have read many of them, but they aren't historical documents. The Jesus of faith is, of course, a reality to many, me included. But, to me, Jesus is more of an archetype, an idea and ideal. Whether he actually or historically existed exactly as we idealize him is not important to me.
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Of course one of the 'problems' of certain monotheisms is that they forget that all of their books are metaphor, analogy, myth, legends, for that is how spirituality (what people find to be deeply meaningful) is transmitted. It sucks out the nuance.

"It's Scripture, stupid!"

"Isn't it really how these words are used over time by fellow human beings?"

"No, it's important that these words and all of these people actually existed."

Then again, one person's metaphor is another person's concrete reality :3 Thus, Holy Wars...
 
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Jesus "is" also an English word with many usages

Jesus "is", in the fine Jewish tradition, a reality hacker

Jesus "is" the jumped oil that one applies to one's self to get closer to their Deity

Jesus "is" the man who drove her mother to an early grave

Jesus "is" part of an intrusion into our reality by an alien presence
 
Jesus "is" a false prophet

Jesus "is" a character in an anthology

Jesus "is" the Lord of Earthquakes

Jesus "is" here to save us from our Creator, the Demiurge

Jesus "is" another avatar of Visnu
 
Waterfall said:
It's a weird way to say that He's one of us, isn't it. Literally it sounds like man created Him.
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Yuppers, it does...another reason why I like the Judaic version of g_d...when the Roman storms into the special chamber to see their g_d...and finds nothing...

now that's a powerful joke and deep...
 
Inannawhimsey said:
Yuppers, it does...another reason why I like the Judaic version of g_d...when the Roman storms into the special chamber to see their g_d...and finds nothing...
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From what I've read the Judaic interpretation of this phrase is different than Christianity's. Jesus used this phrase 88 times within the Bible. He was raised within the teachings of the Torah, should this give an indication of which translation is closer?
 
Waterfall said:
From what I've read the Judaic interpretation of this phrase is different than Christianity's. Jesus used this phrase 88 times within the Bible. He was raised within the teachings of the Torah, should this give an indication of which translation is closer?
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But even interpretations of the Torah vary widely, as I understand. Even as far back as Jesus' day.
 
Waterfall said:
It's a weird way to say that He's one of us, isn't it. Literally it sounds like man created Him.
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Well, man does create interpretations of God in our own image. On the whole, we've been doing that all along... I believe Jesus really existed as a human historical figure - that he was a fellow human, that he is part of created existance that God created, that he is extremely important...and at the same time, a fellow human among humans who had a future- is-now vision of a new improved loving caring forgiving humanity. And he lived to teach people that they can too - that's his timeless legacy that continues in hearts everywhere - that always is always was and always will be. Somehow he became an idol that people fixate on instead of living the way he taught - in spirit- which I am not sure was ever his intent, and organized religions with strict dogma and ritual formed up around that. I continue to question whether that was really his intent...then again, had it not happened his message might not have become well known all the way up to now and beyond.
 
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Matthew 11:29. It doesn't make sense to me that Jesus would say that, and at the same time desire to be made into an idol - with large institutions and strict rules and rituals set up in his name. Meek and humble people don't crave power. I think he simply loved humanity and wanted to teach a message and live as an example of it. So that it would continue in faith, hope and love and eventually be realized. He was the greatest of loving idealists. Beyond that it was people who craved power who tried to leverage it for control of their subjects.
 
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Son of man, son of God--these sayings, to my mystical mind, mean that Jesus felt and thought that he was both human and divine.

"Hear, o Israel, your God, our Lord, is one!" is part of a Judaic prayer. This could mean the one God of monotheism, but it could also mean that God is the self-creative totality of being as a singularity. Any mystic who feels one with the self-creative singularity could say that he is one with humanity as well as one with God, hence son of man and son of God.

Also, as many people who have experienced at-one-ment will testify, the all-unifying experience usually is accompanied by an upwelling of unitive love. This is why such people frequently preach and practice unitive love.

Rather than trying to figure out what Jesus may or may not have said or meant, and unquestioningly believe in one particular interpretation, it would be better to experience the oneness he experienced, and take it from there. Doctrinal faith can be divisive, but a faith that is rooted in the unitive experience is powerfully unitive.
 
GeoFee said:
I find the word Jesus most interesting and engaging when left ambiguous. The multiplied static images/representations hold little lasting interest for me.
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Well said and I wholeheartedly embrace this view, but it is hard to swallow for those who have invested their whole spirituality/faith in those static images/representations.
 
The persistent problematic presented by idolatry - reducing what is dynamic to what is static.
 
GeoFee said:
I find the word Jesus most interesting and engaging when left ambiguous. The multiplied static images/representations hold little lasting interest for me.
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thus why i tend to like religions with humour built in to them

and the awesome 'picture' of the Judaic g_d...emptiness; not allowing the viewer to not put what they want there
 
Thank you for posting this video. We discussed this book at the Seekers Group at my church last winter. Interesting and refreshing look at Jesus, a human being living in Palestine 2000 years ago. I needed the reminder. I must put it on my 'reread' list.
 
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