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ChemGal said:
Why? It doesn't tell me who. I would just get a notification of a possible exposure - low-risk. It's then my choice what I decide to do with that.

With measles we will say things like where you at blank between times x and y.
With something like the clinic I go to, I'm not concerned about everyone in the building - there are multiple clinics, diagnostics, etc. If there is someone there though for an ultrasound and they have COVID and we cross paths my clinic is likely not notified (nor should it have to be) but if I'm within a few feet of them as they run past me, I think it's reasonable to know that one of the people I was close to briefly has COVID.
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But again, you'd both have to have the app. Yes?
 
BetteTheRed said:
But again, you'd both have to have the app. Yes?
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Correct, but it's not even working like that for now. The timeframe of bluetooth seeing each other to trigger if one person does input they have a positive test is 15 minutes.

I would like to see the tracing pushed a little bit more. Fix the Apple issue (Kenney has been claiming Ottawa is preventing Apple from working with Alberta - not sure what the real details are). Opt out if possible, instead of opt-in for smartphones. If that's not possible at least send a notification out; maybe with the emergency system. My phone prompts me to do stuff all the time, like updates. People are lazy, if they don't have to go searching for the app that would help. Give out little bluetooth devices for those who do not have smartphones, they can be a little pin or something.

And then like I said, do 3 levels of alerts - so even less likely exposures at least give a notification.
 
ChemGal said:
Why? It doesn't tell me who. I would just get a notification of a possible exposure - low-risk. It's then my choice what I decide to do with that.

With measles we will say things like where you at blank between times x and y.
With something like the clinic I go to, I'm not concerned about everyone in the building - there are multiple clinics, diagnostics, etc. If there is someone there though for an ultrasound and they have COVID and we cross paths my clinic is likely not notified (nor should it have to be) but if I'm within a few feet of them as they run past me, I think it's reasonable to know that one of the people I was close to briefly has COVID.
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It might not tell you who it is. But those who have access to the data can see the same person who passed you on the stairs and where they go next, and where you go next. They could follow everyone around all day and figure out who each person they can see is, pretty easily - crunch the data and know where everyone is at all times. So I don't like its implications for invading privacy - for what uses besides covid that could have. It's not paranoia its resistance of a total surveillance state. They have the technology all they need is to have an ongoing legit seeming reason for the public to buy-in. Now they do. I imagine they will get lots of use out of it.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
It might not tell you who it is. But those who have access to the data can see the same person who passed you on the stairs and where they go next, and where you go next. They could follow everyone around all day and figure out who each person they can see is, pretty easily - crunch the data and know where everyone is at all times. So I don't like its implications for invading privacy - for what uses besides covid that could have. It's not paranoia its resistance of a total surveillance state. They have the technology all they need is to have an ongoing legit seeming reason for the public to buy-in. Now they do. I imagine they will get lots of use out of it.
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It doesn't really see where we go - other than yes, when I go up the stairs the next people I tend to connect with are those working in the clinic. It's also possible to turn the app on and off. So one can travel around outside and then turn it on when grocery shopping.
 
I think contract tracing is way less of an imposition than telling people they can't go to their nearest superstore for 2 weeks because it's outside their neighbourhood.
 
ChemGal said:
I think contract tracing is way less of an imposition than telling people they can't go to their nearest superstore for 2 weeks because it's outside their neighbourhood.
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I don't, in the long-run. Government spying on citizens movements is potentially a far bigger imposition and risk to our humanity than two weeks of minor inconvenience. Not going to Superstore for 2 weeks or potential despot government having greater ease to spy on people and round them up? It's not paranoid. We are in dangerous times. And covid is only a small part of it. You might want to rethink that.
 
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Kimmio Laughterlove said:
I don't, in the long-run. Government spying on citizens is potentially a far bigger imposition that two weeks of minor inconvenience.
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It can be removed when this is over. I really don't think the government is looking at who was around who outside what this was designed for. I don't think those who have access have the time to do that, nor do I expect they would have much interest in it.
 
ChemGal said:
It can be removed when this is over. I really don't think the government is looking at who was around who outside what this was designed for. I don't think those who have access have the time to do that, nor do I expect they would have much interest in it.
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:notworthy: Maybe not initially. It wouldn't take them long to repurpose it. You do know that in the 50s and 60s the US government and Canada too, spied on people accused of being communists, even those who went to one meeting, and kept dossiers on them. Russian government, Nazis, East Germany - all far reaching spy apparatus listening to citizens conversations and tracing their movements for political purposes. You are naive to just buy in without thinking about that. Especially in these times. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Oh well. I think people are largely naive and we're pretty f***ing doomed if we let covid - not just the disease but the obsession with everything surrounding it, take over. It's a real disease but if powers can use it as a red herring for something else too - they will. They're not, on the whole, nice people. They won't spend that kind of money on surveillance just for disease outbreaks that only kill frail seniors and already unhealthy people, then discontinue it. They don't care that much and never did.

BC doesn't have an app. I trust Bonnie Henry because she's worked on Ebola in Africa where they didn't use apps and they managed. I imagine that was harder and they were actually dealing with despots. She's smart.
 
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Kimmio Laughterlove said:
:notworthy: Maybe not initially. It wouldn't take them long to repurpose it. You do know that in the 50s and 60s the US government and Canada too, spied on people accused of being communists, even those who went to one meeting, and kept dossiers on them. Russian government, Nazis, East Germany - all far reaching spy apparatus listening to citizens conversations and tracing their movements for political purposes. You are naive to just buy in without thinking about that. Especially in these times. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Oh well. I think people are largely naive and we're pretty f***ing doomed if we let covid - not just the disease but the obsession with everything surrounding it, take over. It's a real disease but if powers can use it as a red herring for something else too - they will. They're not, on the whole, nice people. They won't spend that kind of money on surveillance just for disease outbreaks that only kill frail seniors and already unhealthy people, then discontinue it. They don't care that much and never did.

BC doesn't have an app. I trust Bonnie Henry because she's worked on Ebola in Africa where they didn't use apps and they managed. I imagine that was harder and they were actually dealing with despots. She's smart.
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What are you worried about them doing with it?
The app was looked at for privacy, the concern with it was on Apple, not Android and it wasn't really specific to the app, but more about the inability to lock the phone when using it.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
Cracking down on protests.

And the inability to lock the phone while using it is a big problem, too.
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Yeah, and it was because of what Apple allows with App, I do hope for that to be fixed.

For the protests - Hinshaw has been involved with the app, she wasn't encouraging them to crackdown on them. That wasn't seen to have happened here. I don't see how using the app in the past would help with crackdowns in the future.
 
I imagine the large majority of phone conversations listened to by spies in Russia and East Germany were benign. Talk about the weather, the kids, a recipe. Most of the people they followed around were just regular people. But even that was very wrong. Maybe you don't get the gravity of that.
 
ChemGal said:
Yeah, and it was because of what Apple allows with App, I do hope for that to be fixed.

For the protests - Hinshaw has been involved with the app, she wasn't encouraging them to crackdown on them. That wasn't seen to have happened here. I don't see how using the app in the past would help with crackdowns in the future.
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It is something that could be used in the future. Not that it will for sure but if this covid tracing goes on indefinitely I would be suspicious. If it becomes mandatory, very suspicious. I already think the implications for its use are dangerous. Like so many technologies where people lack foresight.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
I imagine the large majority of phone conversations listened to by spies in Russia and East Germany were benign. Talk about the weather, the kids, a recipe. But even that was very wrong. Maybe you don't get the gravity of that.
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Maybe you have no idea of how thoroughly your movements and on-line activity are tracked? The surveillance state isn't coming; it is here.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
It is something that could be used in the future. Not that it will for sure but if this covid tracing goes on indefinitely I would be suspicious. If it becomes mandatory, very suspicious. I already think the implications for its use are dangerous. Like so many technologies where people lack foresight.
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How would it be used in the future?
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
I imagine the large majority of phone conversations listened to by spies in Russia and East Germany were benign. Talk about the weather, the kids, a recipe. Most of the people they followed around were just regular people. But even that was very wrong. Maybe you don't get the gravity of that.
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There was a purpose to the spying though.
The app doesn't identify who the person is. The app doesn't identify where people are. All it does is records when someone was close enough to someone else, and the 'id' for that app, not the person. Then if someone uploads information those who have the stored 'id' get notified.
I don't even know if someone is capable of looking through to see how many connections have occurred, but if it is possible I still don't see it as a privacy issue and it's not something most would be interested in.
 
ChemGal said:
The app doesn't identify who the person is. The app doesn't identify where people are. All it does is records when someone was close enough to someone else, and the 'id' for that app, not the person. Then if someone uploads information those who have the stored 'id' get notified.
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This exactly. The app does not share data, it stores it and compares it to data it receives. It does not use GPS to know your location, only uses Bluetooth to see what phones you have been close to. It can't even tell whether you were close to them at church or the park or the grocery store, only that you were close to them. So how exactly it could be used to "spy" is questionable. It would be far easier to just monitor people's activity by using social media, since a lot of people don't bother to disable things like "geotagging" (using GPS to add location data to photos and videos). So people voluntarily surrender that information all the time. Relative to that, this app isn't even that useful as a spy tool. If you are worried about being tracked and monitored, start by uninstalling Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, Instagram, etc. They are a greater risk than this app.
 
The last Covid patient in NS has gone home. He was our one and only ICU patient with Covid and it was a miracle that he survived.
atlantic.ctvnews.ca

Grand send-off: Nova Scotia man goes home after winning 101-day battle with COVID-19

Doctors, nurses and hospital staff lined the hallway of the Valley Regional Hospital on Tuesday morning. It wasn't your typical discharge, but Al Poirier isn't your typical patient. Poirier was released 101 days after being taken by ambulance to the hospital.
atlantic.ctvnews.ca atlantic.ctvnews.ca
 
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