Novel Coronavirus

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Waterfall said:
What do you think Italy should do?
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I personally do not know what is the best policy for all of Italy. I suppose we can only wait and see it this 'test' proves viable as a 'control' measure that can be implemented in other parts of the world at 'governments' discretion. Perhaps Canada should try it ...
 
Large questions often occur ... many with no solid resolutions because we don't know!

How many rock-hard perfect leaders would admit to such truths?

The truth is more painful at some layers other then at the bottom where we collect the crappy results of the floss in the system ... and crap does occur! The one thing i do know ...
 
That's f'ing scary. Italy has some far right fascist leadership at the moment, remember. I thought of that but didn't want to mention it yesterday until I knew more about the details.

This is why I am of two minds. I question, if the deaths (relatively few globally speaking) of 80 year olds - who are at most risk from viruses generally, is worth shutting a country down. It seems to me that there's more to this than public health.

But now, Italians who think this is extreme and wrong, can't protest their government - for any reason - can they?
 
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morningstaronline.co.uk

Anti-fascists rally against Italian leader Salvini

ANTI-FASCISTS gathered at Piccadilly Circus in London last night to protest against a visit by far-right Italian politician Matteo Salvini.
morningstaronline.co.uk morningstaronline.co.uk

"...Mr Salvini, who leads the far-right League party..."

"...Mr Salvini has led a campaign to imprison Mr Roldan as part of attempts to victimise refugees and migrants. The League is currently blaming migrants for spreading the coronavirus in Italy."

"Italian anti-fascists will join Anti-Racism Day demonstrations in London and Glasgow on March 21." (Or, I guess not?)
 
With any luck, the Italians will eventually come to their senses about Salvini. After all, Mussolini enjoyed high support at the start and ended up being strung up by partisans.
 
Mendalla said:
With any luck, the Italians will eventually come to their senses about Salvini. After all, Mussolini enjoyed high support at the start and ended up being strung up by partisans.
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There's a movement of young "hipster fascists" there right now, who revere Mussolini - and know all about his history. That's really about racism and the refugee crisis. Now they are using the virus as an excuse to mobilize the anti-refugee sentiment. It's actually kind of disturbing. I'd rather Canada be more lax, than go the other direction like China and Italy. Fascism's a bigger global risk than this virus.
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
Also from German newspaper a comparison to the time of the spanish flu, which is stating that closing the scho9l early ( in the onset) had reduced the spread by 25%. There are some school closures in my hometown of Berlin after a teacher and a student were diagnosed. They have switched to online school work.
Italy is now under complete lockdown. I guess thats what those toilet paper hoarders are fearing. Can you imagine being quarantined and out of toilet paper for three weeks? I will be going to Costco this week- looking forward to watch the crowd and see what’s the best selling item.
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A friend's dad told her he isn't worried, because he gets the daily newspaper delivered, and has stacks of it. :giggle:
 
In one place I lived I used to always just use Kleenex. It was perfectly fine. Better than TP, even. The toilet paper holder was broken and I just decided one day to put a box of Kleenex on the toilet, and just kept doing that. So, yeah, I could imagine being out of TP for 3 weeks - and being resourceful (paper towel, dig out the tissue from the Christmas wrapping box...lol.) And then, wash with a cloth. I would survive. It'd be the least of my worries.
 
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634 people have died from Coronavirus in Italy. The country's population is 60.5 million. That's .00001% of the population.

Their median age is a little higher on average, and most people who've died - like other viruses - are elderly seniors. I don't really understand why this is so much more serious than other bad bugs that commonly go around. I don't really believe it is - on one hand - on the other, I still hope people take reasonable precautions and that our medical system handles it well (without panic or authoritarian moves). Authoritarian methods have not proven to be as effective as free flow of information and reasonable social expectations during outbreaks.

It doesn't make sense to shut down ski resorts, and concerts - places where young to middle aged people tend to gather - when it's 80-90 year olds who are most at risk. Something is askew.

And, they are keeping coffee shops open during weekdays...not weekends.,.but why?

I guess this is stereotyping...but my observation while living in Vancouver, was that in little Italy, the coffee shops, every afternoon, were busy with older, senior men, arguing and playing chess (it's true...it's a cultural thing, and I found it amusing to be there). So...how is this going to help?
 
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Ritafee said:
I like this perspective ...
"Being confined to our own towns or cities could foster a revival of cottage industries and an appreciation for locally made goods." “There are so many possibilities,” “I’m strangely looking forward to it.”
qz.com

A design trends forecaster calls the coronavirus “an amazing grace for the planet”

"The virus might be the reason we survive as a species."
qz.com qz.com
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Except, most of us know people outside of our communities. Cottage industries is one thing...being forcibly separated is another.

I think I'd rather not be confined to this gawd-awful town (ok, it's picture-pretty, good for photographers - but I don't like the local attitude here...it's awful. Small town busy bodies who think they're pretty hip. It's not a "real" city. If you say that to most locals they'd be offended because they've made up their minds that it's the best thing since sliced bread...but it sucks here compared to where I spent half my life. I never liked it - I complained about the mentality here while I was gone - everytime I visited I thought "Ew God...get me out of here" - and swore I wouldn't move back unless I had to. Then I had to, and due to lower income, am stuck). The locals don't get it because being set in their ways suits them just fine...and the tourists don't get it because they aren't here long enough to.

I think, if they are going to restrict travel, it should be vacation travel - superfluous luxury travel - only. And then common sense - like don't visit seniors homes if you're sick, and be mindful of your elderly neighbours and relatives.
 
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Kimmio Laughterlove said:
634 people have died from Coronavirus in Italy. The country's population is 60.5 million. That's .00001% of the population.

Their median age is a little higher on average, and most people who've died - like other viruses - are elderly seniors. I don't really understand why this is so much more serious than other bad bugs that commonly go around. I don't really believe it is - on one hand - on the other, I still hope people take reasonable precautions and that our medical system handles it well (without panic or authoritarian moves). Authoritarian methods have not proven to be as effective as free flow of information and reasonable social expectations during outbreaks.

It doesn't make sense to shut down ski resorts, and concerts - places where young to middle aged people tend to gather - when it's 80-90 year olds who are most at risk. Something is askew.

And, they are keeping coffee shops open during weekdays...not weekends.,.but why?

I guess this is stereotyping...but my observation while living in Vancouver, was that in little Italy, the coffee shops, every afternoon, were busy with older, senior men, arguing and playing chess (it's true...it's a cultural thing, and I found it amusing to be there). So...how is this going to help?
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Some of the harder hit areas were being covered on the news. The big issue is the hospital system. There are direct effects of disease and indirect. It's not just 70+ year olds who are dying there are others. Ventilators are in high demand. There is the possibility that not everyone who needs one will get it during an outbreak. Our healthcare system is often already stretched thin in some areas. If cases do dramatically increase, that affects those who need heathcare for other things too. Decreasing the number who get sick at a time is beneficial.
 
Authoritarian management is not beneficial. And if blaming this on immigrants is happening, it's extremely dangerous. I guarantee that more people die needlessly under fascist regimes than from viruses like this, alone.
 
When humans are stressed, they tend towards accepting authoritarian leadership. When times are good, 'liberal' ideas of open-ness, change, inclusion tend to flourish; when times are frightening, authority and and certainty and the 'right answers' make the populace tend towards 'conservative' - the 'magic of yesterday'.
 
BetteTheRed said:
When humans are stressed, they tend towards accepting authoritarian leadership. When times are good, 'liberal' ideas of open-ness, change, inclusion tend to flourish; when times are frightening, authority and and certainty and the 'right answers' make the populace tend towards 'conservative' - the 'magic of yesterday'.
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True, but that's a mistake that has led to horrible consequences in the past.
 
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