Novel Coronavirus

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revsdd said:
So yesterday I went to the Ajax Costco to pick up a few things we needed. The store was very busy. I had to park in a faraway part of the lot, giving me about as far a walk to the store through the lot as possible. There was a cart near my car, so I grabbed it. I had to walk a long way pushing that cart. When I went through the entrance of the store they had employees reaching out to wipe the handles of the carts with some sort of disinfectant wipe. I said to the woman, "Dont bother. It really isn't necessary." I got somewhat rudely rebuffed by her and she still inststed on reaching out and giving the handle a quick wipe. Now here's the thing. I've already had my hands on the handle for a while, pushing the cart to the store from the far end of the parking lot. I've already been exposed to any virus on the handle. What practical value is there in having employees giving cart handles a quick wipe after people have already been pushing the carts?

And as I traversed the warehouse I passed by the area where they usually stock toilet paper. There was no toilet paper to be seen but there was skid after skid after skid of Jumbo paper towels. Any port in a storm?

I think we need to take proper precautions - again, washing hands, etc. I don't really get into the hand sanitizers to be honest. I'm quite confident that a good wash with soap and water will be sufficient. And masks? No. I think we should be concerned, but not panicky about this.
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I would’ve used it...and one for the hands too.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
I’ve been told by a doctor that washing with soap and water (sing happy Birthday song twice as a “timer”) is the best way to prevent viruses, but yes, absolutely, use hand sanitizer in between! I think in healthcare Settings hand sanitizer is a quick and easy way to make sure hands are cleaned more frequently.
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Some years ago I was a volunteer hospital chaplain. We were instructed to use soap and water and NOT hand sanitizer to prevent virus spread.
 
revsdd said:
Some years ago I was a volunteer hospital chaplain. We were instructed to use soap and water and NOT hand sanitizer to prevent virus spread.
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It is good to use in between. Cleansing several times a day, like 10+, regardless of whether soap or sanitizer. Especially after bathroom, before eating, after eating, after touching money and door handles. Hand sanitizer is basically alcohol gel, kills nasty germs instantly. Saves time.
 
All the various grocery stores I use have had hand wipes for years. At least five. I use them every time Not for corona virus but for all the grubby hands that hold the cart

I wipe the handle, I wipe my hands as well.

i am not sure what the toilet paper thing is honestly about. I read all the time about stores being out of TP. I mean honestly, stock up on some soups and beans and pastas so if you get I’ll you don’t need to go out. but now, with on line shopping, grocery stores that deliver or have curb pick up I just don’t get it

i usually have about four rolls of toilet paper around. A package has six or many more depending on what you buy. How much toilet paper do you need for a week?

an interesting column on the weekend about the possible social isolation that may result from being isolated. People not going to games, movies, plays......
 
Lastpointe said:
It should only be used if you can’t get to a sink with soap and water
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At home, I wash in the sink. In public, I wash after using the restroom, AND use hand sanitizer before and after eating, and on the bus. I just do. I wash my hands in the sink as soon as I get home. I clean my hands about 10 times a day or more, one way or another. And I rarely get colds anymore. I can’t help but touch my face if I get an itch, if my hair tickles it, or needs to be swept out of my eye (it’s medium to long)...it just happens, so I keep my hands clean. Plus, where I work, we share some equipment and we are all in the habit of frequently wiping surfaces with alcohol wipes or cotton pads dabbed with alcohol.

The thing with hand sanitizer is it’s quick, easy - can carry a small bottle in purse or pocket, doesn’t require obsessively running to a sink, while still allowing for diligent hand cleaning.
 
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Lastpointe said:
All the various grocery stores I use have had hand wipes for years. At least five. I use them every time Not for corona virus but for all the grubby hands that hold the cart

I wipe the handle, I wipe my hands as well.

i am not sure what the toilet paper thing is honestly about. I read all the time about stores being out of TP. I mean honestly, stock up on some soups and beans and pastas so if you get I’ll you don’t need to go out. but now, with on line shopping, grocery stores that deliver or have curb pick up I just don’t get it

i usually have about four rolls of toilet paper around. A package has six or many more depending on what you buy. How much toilet paper do you need for a week?

an interesting column on the weekend about the possible social isolation that may result from being isolated. People not going to games, movies, plays......
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I’m thinking with everyone avoiding going out, (maybe) public places will be more spacious and safer! In the mall yesterday, with it being eeerily quiet, I was thinking...”fewer people to come into contact with and less chance of encountering the virus.”
 
It was weird that Canadian Tire was out of TP. I was in there last week. I buy cheap laundry detergent there (I recently discovered Old Dutch liquid $2.99 for the scented, 3.99 for sensitive/ unscented). It's the only place I've seen that product (I know about old Dutch scrubbing powder, same brand, good enough) it all was on sale only $2 for 2L! I find it's a bit thin so I use extra - and I don't even know if that's necessary - but for that price, it works just great.

Anyway, I usually go there for cleaning stuff - last week I noticed they had loads of TP...bulk packages, too much for me...but I noticed their "Frank" brand (I get a kick out of reading the phrases on their Frank products...funny marketing). There was half an aisle of TP. Yesterday, it was bare. So weird. I don't quite get it. If you run out you can use tissues (there are cases of Kleenex around) - which are almost the same thing - or even paper towel (though be careful not to flush too much down at once or it might get clogged). But why are people scared of running out of TP not food?!
 
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Handwashing is better but handsanitizer has it's purpose. Leaving the hospital or clinic for example I can get my hands less contagiony (super scientific explanation) before getting in my car. Especially the hospital it's not possible to wash hands and not touch anything before leaving.

There's one death in Canada now Majority of cases in Alberta have come from the US if counting the cruise.
 
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Hand washing is better and needed for certain bugs, i.e. C - difficile, which has spores and is known to be better removed with washing hands, therefore, there are signs for staff and visitors on the rooms with patients infected with them instructing people to wash hands. Otherwise, hand sanitizer removes germs, but not dirt. So, you get blood or poop on your hands you want to wash.
Protocol in the hospital is to use hand sanitizer before entering a room and after leaving, as well as between dealing with different patients. That’s why there are handsanitizers in the rooms as well, because if the roommate wants you to just pass him the glass of water, you need to sanitize in between patients.
When removing personal protective gear, one has to sanitize three times in the process- take off gloves, sanitize, take off gown, sanitize, take off mask, sanitize after leaving room.
 
I always wash after the bathroom, and before eating. I use hand sanitizer before eating if I'm out because you touch money and surfaces, trays, before eating in say, a food court.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
Why was Italy hit so hard? 7300+ cases?!
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Actually, just read in German newspaper that the difference between a higher mortality in Italy and in Germany lies in the different way of counting. In Italy, they also test people for corona post mortem- after they have died of some complications that were not associated with corona, what they are not ( yet) doing in Germany, while in Germany, they are still at the beginning of the outbreak and they are having capacities for testing people who are just had been contacts but don’t have symptoms, therefore catching a population of people which a strained health system in Italy cannot test anymore.
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
Actually, just read in German newspaper that the difference between a higher mortality in Italy and in Germany lies in the different way of counting. In Italy, they also test people for corona post mortem- after they have died of some complications that were not associated with corona, what they are not ( yet) doing in Germany, while in Germany, they are still at the beginning of the outbreak and they are having capacities for testing people who are just had been contacts but don’t have symptoms, therefore catching a population of people which a strained health system in Italy cannot test anymore.
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That's confusing. So, is that bringing the overall worldwide death rate (statistically) up?
 
I hate how this has been politicized in the US as a Dem vs. Republican issue. Trump has led people to believe COVID-19 is no big deal. I'd like to believe that too - but as it spreads through Washington State (and cruises will be coming up here) in the community, and as Italy declares their whole country a hot-zone...it's at the very least a problem to be concerned about, if not alarmed. The thing is, Trump supporters might think it's nothing until they get it and have no healthcare coverage. And the rest of the US is rightly concerned that testing is being poorly handled and/ or non-existant. What concerns me is that because that's the case, maybe there is an overreaction to the threat to most people. Or maybe not. As long as they keep everybody confused and fearful - it's like a big social experiment to see how much people will willingly be controlled. I don't recall such a huge deal over SARS or MERS or H1n1 (I remember alarm that it was striking younger people unlike most flu bugs). I do recall concern, but not like this. The main difference? The Age of Trump, and the steady encroachment of authoritarianism around the world. Which causes me to be of two minds on this.

Canada is handling it in a pretty low panic fashion so far. I kind of wish they would halt cruises to our ports this spring/summer...that will strain businesses extraordinarily, though. And I wish they'd be a bit more stringent at the Washington border crossings, temporarily, until this wave of the virus settles down.

Small local businesses depend on the thousands of people that come into town everytime a ship comes in. But, frankly, this city could become a hell of a virus vortex - highly concentrated in our little downtown - and I don't think anybody wants that. There are things more important than doing business. I wonder if the government can offer some sort of compensation (obviously it wouldn't cover all the losses but maybe enough to cover some), and cancel the cruises?
 
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Also from German newspaper a comparison to the time of the spanish flu, which is stating that closing the scho9l early ( in the onset) had reduced the spread by 25%. There are some school closures in my hometown of Berlin after a teacher and a student were diagnosed. They have switched to online school work.
Italy is now under complete lockdown. I guess thats what those toilet paper hoarders are fearing. Can you imagine being quarantined and out of toilet paper for three weeks? I will be going to Costco this week- looking forward to watch the crowd and see what’s the best selling item.
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
Italy is now under complete lockdown. I guess thats what those toilet paper hoarders are fearing. Can you imagine being quarantined and out of toilet paper for three weeks?
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The Prime Ministerial Decree will enter into force on Tuesday March 10, and decrees the following (summarized) enactments:
  • Physical persons must avoid any travel in and out of the interested territories, as well as within the same territories, except for journeys motivated by self-proven working needs, situations of necessity, or health reasons. It is allowed to come back to your home or residence.
  • Subjects with respiratory infection symptoms and fever (more than 37.5° C) are strongly recommended to stay at home, limit social contacts as much as possible, and contact the family doctor;
  • There’s an absolute ban on mobility from one’s home or dwelling for people subjected to the quarantine measures or virus positive results;
  • Events and sporting competitions of every kind and discipline in public or private places, are supsended.
  • It is recommended to public and private employers to encourage employees to take leaves during the period of effectiveness of the decree.
  • All ski areas are closed;
  • All organized demonstrations are suspended, as well as events in public or private places, including cultural, recreational, sports, religious events and fairs, even if carried out indoors, namely cinemas, theaters, pubs, dance schools, game rooms, betting rooms, bingo halls, discos and similar places;
  • All didactic activities in schools of all levels are suspended, as well as attendance of schools and training activities, including those carried out by universities, institutions and other public, private, territorial and local bodies, to the exlcusion of specialist training and specific courses in general medicine, as well as the traineeship activities in the healthcare professions;
  • The opening of places of worship is conditioned by the necessary adoption of organizational measures so as to avoid gatherings of people. All civil and religious ceremonies are suspended, including funerals;
  • Museums and other cultural institutes are closed;
  • Public and private examination and tender procedures are suspended to the exclusion of cases in which the evaluation of candidates is carried out exclusively on a curricular basis or in telematic mode;
  • Restaurant and bar activities are allowed from 6 am to 6 pm, with the obligation on the operators to guarantee the minimum one-meter distance of interpersonal security;
  • Commercial activities other than those mentioned above are allowed, provided that operators guarantee access on a quota basis suitable to avoid gatherings of people, taking into account the size and characteristics of premises needed to respect the interpersonal distance of at least one meter;
  • The ordinary leave of health personnel and technicians, as well as that of the staff whose activities are required by the crisis units established at regional level, is suspended;
  • Middle and large sales structures, as well as commercial premises within shopping centers and markets, are closed on public holidays;
  • Gyms, swimming pools, spas, sport centers, cultural centers, social centers and recreation centers are suspended.
National Health Institute Silvio Brusaferro said the average age of 'patients who have died after being infected by coronavirus' was over 81.

He added they were predominantly male, with more than 80 percent suffering from more than two underlying health conditions.

Martial law is reserved for extreme emergencies?
 
Ritafee said:
The Prime Ministerial Decree will enter into force on Tuesday March 10, and decrees the following (summarized) enactments:
  • Physical persons must avoid any travel in and out of the interested territories, as well as within the same territories, except for journeys motivated by self-proven working needs, situations of necessity, or health reasons. It is allowed to come back to your home or residence.
  • Subjects with respiratory infection symptoms and fever (more than 37.5° C) are strongly recommended to stay at home, limit social contacts as much as possible, and contact the family doctor;
  • There’s an absolute ban on mobility from one’s home or dwelling for people subjected to the quarantine measures or virus positive results;
  • Events and sporting competitions of every kind and discipline in public or private places, are supsended.
  • It is recommended to public and private employers to encourage employees to take leaves during the period of effectiveness of the decree.
  • All ski areas are closed;
  • All organized demonstrations are suspended, as well as events in public or private places, including cultural, recreational, sports, religious events and fairs, even if carried out indoors, namely cinemas, theaters, pubs, dance schools, game rooms, betting rooms, bingo halls, discos and similar places;
  • All didactic activities in schools of all levels are suspended, as well as attendance of schools and training activities, including those carried out by universities, institutions and other public, private, territorial and local bodies, to the exlcusion of specialist training and specific courses in general medicine, as well as the traineeship activities in the healthcare professions;
  • The opening of places of worship is conditioned by the necessary adoption of organizational measures so as to avoid gatherings of people. All civil and religious ceremonies are suspended, including funerals;
  • Museums and other cultural institutes are closed;
  • Public and private examination and tender procedures are suspended to the exclusion of cases in which the evaluation of candidates is carried out exclusively on a curricular basis or in telematic mode;
  • Restaurant and bar activities are allowed from 6 am to 6 pm, with the obligation on the operators to guarantee the minimum one-meter distance of interpersonal security;
  • Commercial activities other than those mentioned above are allowed, provided that operators guarantee access on a quota basis suitable to avoid gatherings of people, taking into account the size and characteristics of premises needed to respect the interpersonal distance of at least one meter;
  • The ordinary leave of health personnel and technicians, as well as that of the staff whose activities are required by the crisis units established at regional level, is suspended;
  • Middle and large sales structures, as well as commercial premises within shopping centers and markets, are closed on public holidays;
  • Gyms, swimming pools, spas, sport centers, cultural centers, social centers and recreation centers are suspended.
National Health Institute Silvio Brusaferro said the average age of 'patients who have died after being infected by coronavirus' was over 81.

He added they were predominantly male, with more than 80 percent suffering from more than two underlying health conditions.

Martial law is reserved for extreme emergencies?
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What do you think Italy should do?
 
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