Muslims & Christians: Same God?

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God of the West is clearly Mammon…
hey, don't knock it till you actually try it ;3

i've, once, even tried praying to Mammon...that was before the financial meltdown *whistles tunelessly*

i guess what we really should be doing is to start a program where we intentionally create the cream of humanity, then kill them, so they can go and create their own universes...mua HA HA! heck, maybe that's the 'purpose' of religion?
 
Deuteronomy 17:
2
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the
3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
--I take it you believe ,some how the two posts are the same . Read again what you posted. It is a bit far from what I posted. It said question first to be sure. See that the crime that was spook of really happen . If you find it true that this person . LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, then put them to death by stoning at the front gate. I would say this is so all would see. We even here in Canada had the death penalty, up to a few years ago. I happen to believe we still should". But hay the world is getting so much better", under mans rule ha. If the Muslims ever get control . You then will really see blood. They I understand don't put a thief in jail you know. They take them out into the street ,and cut there hand off.
 
Pavros,hello! There is a scientific discipline called Text Criticism. The KJV has been proven to be based on the latest and most corrupt manuscripts. It adds verses and accounts that are absent in the oldest and most reliable texts and from the more reliable texts used by the early church Fathers. There is no sectarian controversy about this in the scholarly community. Your insistence on quoting the KJV is like those few fundies who claim that fossils were planted by Satan to entice us to believe in evolution. Why not actually investigate Text Criticism?
 
Pavros,hello! There is a scientific discipline called Text Criticism. The KJV has been proven to be based on the latest and most corrupt manuscripts. It adds verses and accounts that are absent in the oldest and most reliable texts and from the more reliable texts used by the early church Fathers. There is no sectarian controversy about this in the scholarly community. Your insistence on quoting the KJV is like those few fundies who claim that fossils were planted by Satan to entice us to believe in evolution. Why not actually investigate Text Criticism?
Lol. irrelevant It says the same in the NIV.2 If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the Lord gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the Lord your God in violation of his covenant, 3 and contrary to my command has worshipped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars in the sky, 4 and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death." Strawmaning yet again, Sweet pea. oh and the ASV is the same. Lol " 2 If there be found in the midst of thee, within any of thy gates which Jehovah thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that doeth that which is evil in the sight of Jehovah thy God, in transgressing his covenant, 3 and hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, or the sun, or the moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded, 4 and it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it; then shalt thou inquire diligently; and, behold, if it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel, 5 then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, who hath done this evil thing, unto thy gates, even the man or the woman; and thou shalt stone them to death with stones." And the ESV, NASV, NLT, What was the relevance of you posting Sweet pea.
 
--I take it you believe ,some how the two posts are the same . Read again what you posted. It is a bit far from what I posted. It said question first to be sure. See that the crime that was spook of really happen . If you find it true that this person . LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, then put them to death by stoning at the front gate. I would say this is so all would see. We even here in Canada had the death penalty, up to a few years ago. I happen to believe we still should". But hay the world is getting so much better", under mans rule ha. If the Muslims ever get control . You then will really see blood. They I understand don't put a thief in jail you know. They take them out into the street ,and cut there hand off.
Lol. Wow and you think they're different.
 
Pavros, I wasn't talking about the meaning of the text, but of your use of a deeply flawed translation. btw, you seem to imagine that the ancient Israelites had modern prisons for confining law breakers.
 
Thanks all. I guess this thread serves as a message to me not to derail other people's threads. Much appreciated. :cool:

Jae,
sorry you are disappointed about your created thread not turning out the way you planned it- just keep in mind that this is a place of discussion and not lecture. I find some of the information turning up here quite interesting.
So thank you for getting it started.
 
Pavros, I wasn't talking about the meaning of the text, but of your use of a deeply flawed translation. btw, you seem to imagine that the ancient Israelites had modern prisons for confining law breakers.
Having read the Hebrew bible/OT and translated it some what myself, and had done the same with the ancient Greek NT, You calling it flawed needs a lot of support. Please provide that or put up or shut up. Sweet pea?

I have several bibles at my disposal. and yet I revert to the KJV simple because it is the closest to the Greek and Hebrew. I don't care whether you think it is flawed, A copy of a copy of a copy (generation loss) comes to mind with other bibles; They have tended to omit stuff. Whether it is because they don't like it or they don't think it is relevant. And some still place it in their bible but as a sidebar. A very telling practice in my opinion.
 
Jae - I've been following along and been impressed by your efforts to bring this thread back on topic again and again.
Lots of good discussion going on here - on topic and off.
Threads go as they will. I've had threads of mine go off in directions I never intended. Sometimes something I really wanted to discuss gets lost or ignored. Sometimes I try to bring them back - usually unsuccessfully. Sometimes I give up and drop out. Other times I go with the flow.

I'll admit that I am easily distracted and probably contribute to derailing threads. Often it is in response to a slight derail - rather than get it back on track, I send it hurdling down a branch line further and further from the main line and intended destination. I appologize for any time I've done that here.

I actually think that there is but One God, but we imperfect human beings understand God imperfectly. Myself - I watch for love, justice, mercy, and the virtues and turn away from hatred, exclusion, revenge, exploitation, etc.
 
Seeler said:
Jae - I've been following along and been impressed by your efforts to bring this thread back on topic again and again.

Thank you Seeler.

I actually think that there is but One God, but we imperfect human beings understand God imperfectly. Myself - I watch for love, justice, mercy, and the virtues and turn away from hatred, exclusion, revenge, exploitation, etc.

Volf's book really made an impression on me Seeler. Before I read it, I would have asserted that there's no way Muslims worship the same God as we Christians do. Having now read it, I would say that, at least in the realm of political theology, they do.

If everyone would strive to love the Divine as best they know how, and to love neighbor as they love themselves, what a peaceful, exciting, and bold world this would be.
 
Having read the Hebrew bible/OT and translated it some what myself, and had done the same with the ancient Greek NT, You calling it flawed needs a lot of support. Please provide that or put up or shut up. Sweet pea?

I have several bibles at my disposal. and yet I revert to the KJV simple because it is the closest to the Greek and Hebrew. I don't care whether you think it is flawed, A copy of a copy of a copy (generation loss) comes to mind with other bibles; They have tended to omit stuff. Whether it is because they don't like it or they don't think it is relevant. And some still place it in their bible but as a sidebar. A very telling practice in my opinion.
--What a waste all those Bibles and you still can't find GOD. If you truly believe what they had to say about GOD was wrong. Why do you now say ,you must hear them in a given way , to understand them , an know that they are right? You seem to be a mixed up person. Peace be with you.
 
Thank you Seeler.



Volf's book really made an impression on me Seeler. Before I read it, I would have asserted that there's no way Muslims worship the same God as we Christians do. Having now read it, I would say that, at least in the realm of political theology, they do.

If everyone would strive to love the Divine as best they know how, and to love neighbor as they love themselves, what a peaceful, exciting, and bold world this would be.
--Good morning Jae--Why worry so much about Volf's book?
There are many good books written by good women and men on GOD. There really is only one man we are to lift up Jae. There is but one man" that by knowing Him" an His" will ,you can be Saved. That being Christ Jesus. Did not all The Apostles teach that Jae?
Let freedom ring , let those who have found, The Lord Christ witness . Volf seem to have some very good things to say, some of which ,I agree with. I think you posted a great thread Jae. But some times it turns out to be . The plans of mice an men. Airclean33-Gord
 
--Good morning Jae--Why worry so much about Volf's book?
There are many good books written by good women and men on GOD. There really is only one man we are to lift up Jae. There is but one man" that by knowing Him" an His" will ,you can be Saved. That being Christ Jesus. Did not all The Apostles teach that Jae?
Let freedom ring , let those who have found, The Lord Christ witness . Volf seem to have some very good things to say, some of which ,I agree with. I think you posted a great thread Jae. But some times it turns out to be . The plans of mice an men. Airclean33-Gord
airclean - I'm not worried about Volf's book. I enjoyed Volf's book. I found it challenging. You speak of Jesus being the one through whom we can be saved. That is a doctrine which most Christians agree on. However, Volf states at the outset of his book (and I shared here in the thread) that it's within the realm of political theology that we're stating that Muslims and Christians worship the sane God.
 
--What a waste all those Bibles and you still can't find GOD. If you truly believe what they had to say about GOD was wrong. Why do you now say ,you must hear them in a given way , to understand them , an know that they are right? You seem to be a mixed up person. Peace be with you.
I didn't say you must hear them in any way. I have a library of very old books a manuscripts, and part of that is an extensive bible collection. A person cannot discuss a subject without first having knowledge of that subject. They are merely for reference. And as for finding god, it would need to exist first wouldn't it.
 
I'm sure that "god" is pretty much a universal but every creature and every human being has its own unique experience of "god". For some humans, it's as simple as money; for some animals it may be as simple as nutriment. Yahweh and Allah are undoubtedly one. But even they get individual treatment from each of their followers. That's probably as it should be: their followers' needs are unique, individual; to individual. It's very hard to cross the rivers of ego, despite their shared source and same ultimate destination. Call it the "human condition" — the trouble with sentience.
 
--Jae --post--
airclean - I'm not worried about Volf's book. I enjoyed Volf's book. I found it challenging. You speak of Jesus being the one through whom we can be saved. That is a doctrine which most Christians agree on. However, Volf states at the outset of his book (and I shared here in the thread) that it's within the realm of political theology that we're stating that Muslims and Christians worship the sane God.


--]Airclean--post
From what I read Jae .In Volf's teaching is that Muslims and Christians ,don't pray to the same GOD? This I also believe. Now can you explain to me what you mean by" that it's within the realm of political theology .
 
Camus makes clear that our creative resistance of those who justify the domination of creature and creation in the name of their diverse gods is not likely to succeed in finally overcoming this tendency to hubris and nemesis. Even so, there is a great joy shared in the solidarity of our creative resistance.

“I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain. One always finds one's burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night-filled mountain, in itself, forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.” Albert Camus in "The Myth of Sisyphus"
 
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