Making All Things New: (Revelation 21: 1-8)

[paradox3]

I think building a New Earth in situ seems more likely than it descending from Heaven. Guess that means I agree with you.

Well Jerusalem is going to descend from heaven according to Revelation 21: 2

 

[paradox3]

Could someone explain where the Second Coming of Christ fits in please?

Is it prior to the Messianic Age of 1000 years? Does the Messianic Age take place on this earth? Where is Satan tied up, do you think?

We are told to expect End Times. This period will involve plagues, destruction and wars right? Is this the same thing as the Tribulation?

Then there's the rapture which makes me wonder if the Messianic Age will take place in heaven rather than on earth.

Anybody got this sorted out better than I do?

 

[Mystic]

Using OT phraseology, the writer gives us a vision of a future era. You wouldn't know it from the hymns, but the new heaven and new earth don't arrive until after the end of the Messianic Age.

Nope. Scholars recognize that John's visions are not sequential in time. So " the millenial age" occurs not in space-time, but in a spiritual dimension after our earth "has passed away," together with its "seas."

It is a beautiful and appealing vision to read or sing about. Are heaven and earth merged into one entity now??? Is this the kingdom of God Jesus expected???

Jesus teaches that the kingdom of God is already present, but in an invisible other dimension (Luke 17:20-21).

Wrongdoers, who are described in v.8, will experience a second death. Their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur.

Mendalla: "I'm sorry but the idea of erasing our memories of those who are cast out just sounds so cultish, it's actually scary."

On the contrary, the eternally open gates (21:25) imply traffic coming and going. But coming and going on what mission? We must first ask, Who is outside the gates?
"Outside" the gates are all the wicked dead in the lake of fire (22:15). So the eternally open gates imply soul retrievals from the lake of fire. Such retrievals are explicitly cited in the next 2 early Christian apocalypses: Apocalypse of Peter 14 (c. 125 AD) and Sibylline Oracles II: 331-335 (c. 150 AD). Thus, 5:13 depicts (out of sequence, paradox3!) a vision of every soul, righteous and unrighteous, worshiping God and Jesus in heaven.

 

[unsafe]

Where are you getting the earth being burned up @unsafe?

The World Will Be Destroyed​

2 Peter 3:6-7 NLV​

5 But they want to forget that God spoke and the heavens were made long ago. The earth was made out of water and water was all around it.

6 Long ago the earth was covered with water and it was destroyed.

7 But the heaven we see now and the earth we live on now have been kept by His word. They will be kept until they are to be destroyed by fire. They will be kept until the day men stand before God and sinners will be destroyed.

 

[Waterfall]

After we die do we stay dead until Jesus comes back or do we die and immediately go to heaven?

 

[paradox3]

The World Will Be Destroyed​

2 Peter 3:6-7 NLV​

5 But they want to forget that God spoke and the heavens were made long ago. The earth was made out of water and water was all around it.

6 Long ago the earth was covered with water and it was destroyed.

7 But the heaven we see now and the earth we live on now have been kept by His word. They will be kept until they are to be destroyed by fire. They will be kept until the day men stand before God and sinners will be destroyed.

Thanks for this. I expected you would have a reference for me.

 

[Mendalla]

Actually, the Earth getting burnt up concurs rather well with the fate currently predicted by astrophysics. The Sun will swell to a red giant, probably consuming Mercury and Venus. Earth might avoid that fate but the surface will still become uninhabitable, scorched by the intense heat as the surface of the Sun draws close to it. And there's a chance it might also get swallowed, so burnt up for sure. That said, this is very far into the future, like billions of years.

 

[paradox3]

After we die do we stay dead until Jesus comes back or do we die and immediately go to heaven?

Beats me.
If Jesus is returning to judge the quick and the dead, it might just be we remain dead until the Second Coming.

OTOH Jesus told the repentant thief on the cross he would see him that day in Paradise.

 

[paradox3]

@Mystic
Your explanation reminds me of the parallel universe in science fiction.

 

[paradox3]

Actually, the Earth getting burnt up concurs rather well with the fate currently predicted by astrophysics. The Sun will swell to a red giant, probably consuming Mercury and Venus. Earth might avoid that fate but the surface will still become uninhabitable, scorched by the intense heat as the surface of the Sun draws close to it. And there's a chance it might also get swallowed, so burnt up for sure. That said, this is very far into the future, like billions of years.

Well isn't this a cheery thought?

 

[Waterfall]

Beats me.
If Jesus is returning to judge the quick and the dead, it might just be we remain dead until the Second Coming.

OTOH Jesus told the repentant thief on the cross he would see him that day in Paradise.

Just wondered if our corpses would be barbequed or not.

 

[unsafe]

Fire Purifies ---so the earth will be purified --the Curse that prevailed over the earth after the fall will be in place no longer -----and this makes way for the New Earth to be reinstated with God's Blessings at the helm -----

 

[paradox3]

Fire Purifies ---so the earth will be purified --the Curse that prevailed over the earth after the fall will be in place no longer -----and this makes way for the New Earth to be reinstated with God's Blessings at the helm -----

I would be very interested in your take on the sequence of predicted events. A quick summary would be helpful.

 

[Mendalla]

Just wondered if our corpses would be barbequed or not.

As long as they use a nice, slightly spicy sauce on me.

 

[Mystic]

Atheists (e. g. Prof. Howard Storm) who find themselves in Hell during NDEs and are converted by the experience make it clear that biblical imagery of Hell denotes low energy vibrations resulting in unpleasant experiences of separation from God.

 

[paradox3]

Atheists (e. g. Prof. Howard Storm) who find themselves in Hell during NDEs and are converted by the experience male it clear that biblical imagery of Hell denotes low energy vibrations resulting in unpleasant experiences of separation from God.

This is very consistent with the idea of hell as a place for cleansing/ refinement rather than punishment

 

[unsafe]

Atheists (e. g. Prof. Howard Storm) who find themselves in Hell during NDEs and are converted by the experience make it clear that biblical imagery of Hell denotes low energy vibrations resulting in unpleasant experiences of separation from God.

Well I think he is hoping that is the case ----I think it is a little more than just unpleasant experiences ---the scriptures describe gnashing of teeth-----

Strong's Concordance
brugmos: a biting, grinding , gnashing of teeth
a gnashing of teeth: with τῶν ὀδόντων added, a phrase denoting the extreme anguish and utter despair of men consigned to eternal condemnation , snarling, growling; in the sense of biting

 

[paradox3]

Well I think he is hoping that is the case ----I think it is a little more than just unpleasant experiences ---the scriptures describe gnashing of teeth-----

Strong's Concordance
brugmos: a biting, grinding , gnashing of teeth
a gnashing of teeth: with τῶν ὀδόντων added, a phrase denoting the extreme anguish and utter despair of men consigned to eternal condemnation , snarling, growling; in the sense of biting

When does this eternal condemnation begin?
Is anyone sent to hell immediately after this life? Or is everyone waiting for Jesus to return to separate the lambs from the goats?
Could anyone be in hell for the Messianic Age and be retrieved at the end of 1000 years?

 

[Mystic]

Jesus implies that the torment begins at death: e. g. [the rich man in Hades complains:] "I am tormented in these flames (Luke 16:24)."

 

[unsafe]

When does this eternal condemnation begin?

People who do not Receive Jesus in their hearts when they die now go to hell -straight a way ------this is not the 2nd death ---the second death takes place at the end of the Tribulation ------so there are 2 deaths for unbelievers -----

When believers die they are immediately with God in heaven ----

Salvation is for the here and now there are no more chances after you die to receive your salvation --

What should we learn from the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16? | GotQuestions.org

What should we learn from the story of the rich man (dives) and Lazarus in Luke 16? What is the key truth we are to learn from the rich man and Lazarus?

www.gotquestions.org

The Bible is clear that every person who has ever lived will spend eternity in either heaven or hell. Like the rich man in the story, multitudes today are complacent in their conviction that all is well with their soul, and many will hear our Savior tell them otherwise when they die (Matthew 7:23).

This story also illustrates that once we cross the eternal horizon, that’s it. There are no more chances. The transition to our eternal state takes place the moment we die (2 Corinthians 5:8; Luke 23:43; Philippians 1:23). When believers die, they are immediately in the conscious fellowship and joys of heaven. When unbelievers die, they are just as immediately in the conscious pain, suffering, and torment of hell.