MAID Concerns - How Will Our Politicians Respond?

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ChemGal

One with keen eye
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May 28, 2014
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Edmonton
What would you expect from it?
Better awareness of symptoms besides pain. Management of multiple conditions. Diagnostics - when one condition from one specialty causes another issue I haven't been someone capable of diagnosing that 2nd one. Better symptom management including with medications. Better knowledge of how a medication affects everything. Some of that may include more consultation with the other specialists - that's currently not something that's done. The most communication that occurs is a summary sent out. As far as I know my internist and hematologist spoke once and my pre hospital admission appointment went on for hours as the anesthesiologist (who wasn't even the one who was present for my surgery) information was at least 20 years out of date so he waited until my hematologist could get on the phone to change the treatment plan. That's been it for direct communication.
 

Lastpointe

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Messages
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Toronto
It is totally frustrating how compartmentalizations medicine is. All your health info should be readily available to everyone. What you are talking about is what we call Primary Care teams. They assess and look at everything. And help make the decisions. And certainly people with complex health issues need that

while Canada has been woefully slow at putting this together and ontario has been painfully slow it is starting to happen at least with in hospital groups. major Toronto hospitals are now linked and also linked to the labs that are scattered around towns and cities. So we can get blood work done, results go onto the system, all doctors can access it as well as the patient. Hubbys cancer care given at Princess Margaret, is available on line to his other doc at TGH and to his family doc. So it is starting

i feel your annoyance Chemgal
 

ChemGal

One with keen eye
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
13,406
Location
Edmonton
It is totally frustrating how compartmentalizations medicine is. All your health info should be readily available to everyone. What you are talking about is what we call Primary Care teams. They assess and look at everything. And help make the decisions. And certainly people with complex health issues need that

while Canada has been woefully slow at putting this together and ontario has been painfully slow it is starting to happen at least with in hospital groups. major Toronto hospitals are now linked and also linked to the labs that are scattered around towns and cities. So we can get blood work done, results go onto the system, all doctors can access it as well as the patient. Hubbys cancer care given at Princess Margaret, is available on line to his other doc at TGH and to his family doc. So it is starting

i feel your annoyance Chemgal
All doctors have been able to access all test results for quite some time although in a cumbersome way. That's at least on the way to improving. I have had my GP at a primary care network since switching from the university health clinic to getting a gp (while still an active student before things got bad was basically preparing to stick in this city post school?. The primary care model is useful but it doesn't include enough. Mental health nurses chronic health nurses social workers (none I've been referred to just a workshop I did) exercise specialist dietitian counsellior. Great for something like diabetes. Not so great for HAE a rare tumour condition etc. I went from seeing 2 doctors multiple times a year for years telling them I was unwell bringing up test results etc. With HAE I think a lot of the issues just got brushed off to that even though I was bringing up it was beyond that especially when controlled. Then within a week they both thought I had metastatic cancer without even having a clue where the cancer stated. My GP isn't a bad GP and I haven't just had her either there's been a few doctor changes and none of them picked up on even what specialist I needed. My internist is good at what he does - I fall outside of that I'm decades younger than patientsI see there. I had a referral for another internist before the tumours were found and it was rejected by the healthcare system.
 

Ritafee

Is Being Human
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
8,181
Location
Manitoba
MAiDis a cost saving to the government. However they convinced you people to fall in love with it, ultimately, it was about cost savings to the accountants who counselled government and they like it. The state loves that you think it’s a true choice. Takes the culpability off of them.
And yet none should dare call it a conspiracy?
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
48,400
Plots, plans, schemes, agendas are all parallels to conspiracy ... but do not cross into another's plan ... or they will say you are badly conspiring even if your thought was to assist the (w)hole thing ... what was deficient in the alternate scheme!
 

Lastpointe

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Messages
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Toronto
I agree that having a complex and not common disease adds to the problem. I am sorry that your health care is not well cared for. Sadly one of the things we have done is pay for a private system of total care. so we can access all care we need under this one umbrella. We pay annually for it, but with my hubby’s complex health e felt it was money well spent. Sadly it should not be necessary
 

ChemGal

One with keen eye
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
13,406
Location
Edmonton
I agree that having a complex and not common disease adds to the problem. I am sorry that your health care is not well cared for. Sadly one of the things we have done is pay for a private system of total care. so we can access all care we need under this one umbrella. We pay annually for it, but with my hubby’s complex health e felt it was money well spent. Sadly it should not be necessary
I actually looked at one of the private clinic options prior to the tumours being found. I had caught my GP at a bad time, a death in her family and with my internist having jumped from cholangitis being probable to Wilson's disease, and looking through information about Wilson's myself and realizing it was the opposite I felt like I needed much better help. My GP clearly didn't know what to make of things then so it was kind of why come to me, let the internist figure it out - when clearly he wasn't trustworthy.
Hah don't think I shared, luckily after cholangitis was suspected Chemguy started coming to appointments with me. I got handed wikipedia printout the first time he came to the internist, on Wilson's disease - which is the first time my copper was discussed (I knew about it going in thanks to online results). My internist likes to talk and luckily I decided to tune him out when he started droning on about a dog that had Wilson's disease so I could read the printout. No joking - that story ended with him putting the dog down due to the condition. Yep, first time Wilson's disease was brought up as a probability to me and the info I got from my doctor was he put his dog down due to the condition. Some of the things my internist has said, and the way they were handled - I'm glad I have a 2nd person backing me up.

Anyway, looked into the private option and it's mostly a lot of extra screening, I contacted them, nothing that would really help me as far as I can tell unless I have something undiagnosed they they would catch. A lot of the tests that have been off for me aren't the extras they do. They market themselves to executives and their families. I'm not a fan of the model, agree with a lot of the criticism they have gotten (basically charging people for public services and double dipping) but if I thought it would have helped at that point I knew something was seriously wrong and I didn't care what was needed to figure it out. I still have an abnormal brain MRI - also not something they would help me with. Ditto for the copper which is a bit of a mystery, although I suspect the tumours (no info really on that and my hepatologist seems to be less aware than me) plus a medication caused it to increase over a long time frame. That has at least decreased on it's own, so if I'm wrong hopefully it will just be an issue that resolves on it's own.
 
Joined
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Messages
29,140
Location
BC
A lot of horrible people in the comment section, though, who really don’t know what’s going on. It’s not exactly comforting to know these are the majority of Canadians who walk among us everyday, who have no idea. Some of them are actually denying that the law actually says what it says - they are in serious denial that things have changed or are not what they believe them to be, in Canada, for people with disabilities - have no idea about systemic ableism - and are totally skipping over the UN’s serious warning. :mad:

The author should’ve made clear that the Truchon decision itself - Truchon was one of two who pushed for C7 - was about a not-dying man whose only two options were death and a nursing home, and he chose death - and his court “win” actually places others in danger, not just now but generations from now - disabled kids who will grow up not confident in their right to live, or that appropriate services and supports will exist for them. The general public are so uninformed and ableist they think taking an opposing side on this is the same as taking a prolife abortion position. I swear the right wing did a bait and switch to bring out internalized ableism in liberals - because nobody took any effort understand what that is in the first place - and get them emotionally attached to MAiD, in vain.

that is my rant to nobody...because nobody cares. Empathy is leaving our society, and this bill exemplifies that and makes it worse. It’s probably the most anti human rights law we’ve passed in several decades.
 
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Lastpointe

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I think people do care. They may not agree with your position but they care about this issue

thanks For posting the article
 
Joined
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Messages
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BC
I think people do care. They may not agree with your position but they care about this issue

thanks For posting the article
If they don’t care about the UN’s warning, they don’t really care. It’s not about “disagreement”. There is no just “choice” involved. It‘s a flat out breach of international law and it puts numerous lives at risk, generations of already existing lives.

For example...If someone is too ashamed to be “crippled” (they have internalized ableism over loss of mobility) they can now ask to die by a doctor’s hand. The doctor can suggest it to patients who are not dying, according to amendments just made by senate. If someone has nowhere decent to live and no home care, they can ask to die because they are disabled. The Truchon decision set that precedent...and that’s seriously inexcusable.


For example...A black person could not, and should not, ask for the same because they are subject to discrimination. A trans person cannot and should not be at risk of same. An able bodied male who is suicidal, suffering over personal events cannot and should not be given MAiD...and would receive specific suicide prevention services. We get to ask for death because we’re disabled. The dying with dignity lawyers presented it as an equal right, when it’s really highest order discrimination (or the lowest of the low argument)...according to international law, even. If anything, the far right-wing is behind that and duped unaware liberals with deep seated prejudices they have not checked in themselves - they are not behind disability rights groups opposing it. There’s no just disagreement with these concerns. None. It’s massive a failure of society.
 
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Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
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Messages
48,400
The exit process is on ... progressively denying space for the lesser populace? Thus the pain of the little folk's denied; excluded?

RIP van Winkle ... that's us ... just winkles in the big folk's balance sheets ... difficult one-way psyches!

Culling what? There goes another thought ... being it is a domain of free emotions ... free intellectual portions are on the other side of the pariah's ... perhaps a fair lobe; missal?

The shrouded lady loves this game ...thus the myth of psyche ... so those of blinded faith can't see it! Ferryman ... are you there ...
 
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Joined
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The politician who tabled this bill originally, later ran for Bernier’s far right people’s party in the last election. That didn’t escape my notice (actually, it did because I wasn’t aware of the names of the PPC candidates in that province, but when I found out it didnt surprise me). It did escape just about everyone else’s that there was something wrong with his ideas, his MO - except some in the disability rights community who criticized him originally when he was a Con. There was something wrong with how he originally presented the argument as he tabled the bill. It was a flagrantly anti-disability rights position (whereas he has benefitted from having disability rights), presented by someone who happened to have a disability, but who also had a position of power and privilege. He used it to put his fellow Canadians with disabilities in danger.

He then got right involved with a racist, nativist party. He ran for a seat. That’s his ideological bent.

He manipulated the latent ableist emotions of the populace with his disability when he originally tabled the Bill, and it worked.
 
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Lastpointe

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What I have read about the senate reforms is concerning. I am hoping that is because the press is only presenting a snip it of info?

otherwise it feels we are on the slippery slope that advocates said would never happen
 

Luce NDs

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Joined
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Messages
48,400
What I have read about the senate reforms is concerning. I am hoping that is because the press is only presenting a snip it of info?

otherwise it feels we are on the slippery slope that advocates said would never happen

Smooth eh? Can you imagine folk doing this?

It may be the needs of competition ...
 

Spirit Wind 7

Living on the edge
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Messages
392
Location
Northern Ontario
MAID is supposed to be a right for all if it is equal. No one should judge my decision about my own life. If I make a decision now
when I am in a 'right' state of mind, whatever that is, it stands as is whether, or not, I am incapacitated in any way, or not.
Who says what 'right' is? We are all prejudiced by upbringing and societies ego systems, so we need to be very careful of judging another's
life, or decisions

I often wonder who looks after the babies born at the will of those who are "Right to Life' people?
Are they going to look after the wee babies born that will not have love, or means to thrive?
Does the movement goes only half way.

I have told my doctors and family and Powers of Attorney if I get Covid I do not want a ventilator, or if anything else happens do not take
high measures to save me. I have a number of interventions & anymore will debilitate me more than I want. I have lived my life.
If I was 40, I would likely not have said that. I expect that to be respected and carried out.

It seems that only the person themselves without pressure, threats, or demeaning practices, should be allowed to speak to their own life.
They live in their body no one else does, they own their own life. God does not author suffering, humans created it.
We have no right to keep people suffering, or make them suffer more.
I agree there is a fine line to walk in some cases and safety needs to accompany people so it is their own choice.

I believe if we can help people gently into life we should be able to help them gently out.
We need to stop using God to make it difficult for people to tell truthfully how they are and not be belittled, or judged.
God whose love is perfectly whole and complete does not need anything to complete it. Or a need to kill, or harm,
or threaten, or keep suffering going. These are human ways not God's.

The Bible written over thousands of years scattered until some collections came together and some men decided which
and what a book would contain. 77 books is much like a library, Bible means Library. It tells us what people believed
and thought all those centuries ago, and some about how life was for them.

It is a guide to their beliefs and can relate to some of ours. But life is transient and thinking must change as we travel down the years.
And as we contemplate God's love as was told and lived out by Jesus.
The same things are true... God is Love, God loves us without condition... his love is supreme.
Jesus reveals more of that than the older scriptures.

It grounds my life in love and I try my best to live from that... love. If I am loved by God everyone is loved the same.
We are growing more and more into that love so we can love more deeply.
Not perfectly but moving toward that goal.

Life does not end here, our bodies do, but our spirit lives on.

Namaste..
SW7
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
29,140
Location
BC
MAID is supposed to be a right for all if it is equal. No one should judge my decision about my own life. If I make a decision now
when I am in a 'right' state of mind, whatever that is, it stands as is whether, or not, I am incapacitated in any way, or not.
Who says what 'right' is? We are all prejudiced by upbringing and societies ego systems, so we need to be very careful of judging another's
life, or decisions

I often wonder who looks after the babies born at the will of those who are "Right to Life' people?
Are they going to look after the wee babies born that will not have love, or means to thrive?
Does the movement goes only half way.

I have told my doctors and family and Powers of Attorney if I get Covid I do not want a ventilator, or if anything else happens do not take
high measures to save me. I have a number of interventions & anymore will debilitate me more than I want. I have lived my life.
If I was 40, I would likely not have said that. I expect that to be respected and carried out.

It seems that only the person themselves without pressure, threats, or demeaning practices, should be allowed to speak to their own life.
They live in their body no one else does, they own their own life. God does not author suffering, humans created it.
We have no right to keep people suffering, or make them suffer more.
I agree there is a fine line to walk in some cases and safety needs to accompany people so it is their own choice.

I believe if we can help people gently into life we should be able to help them gently out.
We need to stop using God to make it difficult for people to tell truthfully how they are and not be belittled, or judged.
God whose love is perfectly whole and complete does not need anything to complete it. Or a need to kill, or harm,
or threaten, or keep suffering going. These are human ways not God's.

The Bible written over thousands of years scattered until some collections came together and some men decided which
and what a book would contain. 77 books is much like a library, Bible means Library. It tells us what people believed
and thought all those centuries ago, and some about how life was for them.

It is a guide to their beliefs and can relate to some of ours. But life is transient and thinking must change as we travel down the years.
And as we contemplate God's love as was told and lived out by Jesus.
The same things are true... God is Love, God loves us without condition... his love is supreme.
Jesus reveals more of that than the older scriptures.

It grounds my life in love and I try my best to live from that... love. If I am loved by God everyone is loved the same.
We are growing more and more into that love so we can love more deeply.
Not perfectly but moving toward that goal.

Life does not end here, our bodies do, but our spirit lives on.

Namaste..
SW7
Adults with disabilities are full human beings. The flagrant rights abuse with this law is that, for example if I was feeling suicidal over my living circumstances and appropriate help was not available, maybe if I need home care in a few years...or it was just too hard to stand up to societal abuse and discrimination...I could go into the doctors office and apply for MAiD because I’m disabled. Even though I probably have 20-30 years of life expectancy, as a full human being, left. Yes, it’s true. People need to realize that if they care. The precedent was set for that exact circumstance, in a Quebec court ruling. Our federal government didn’t challenge it. That means they can let responsibilities to care about our lives go, because MAiD is cheaper. And then those securities slip away and aren’t there for anyone anymore, because they were not ensured first. That is not God’s love.

Also, there is no evidence to suggest disability suffering is worse than say, nasty divorce or poverty suffering. That assumption is based on prejudice. Usually because looking at someone physically disabled and contemplating living in “that” body makes people uncomfortable. That was the basis of the decision to “include“ people with disabilities to be able to ask for MAiD. It’s a law rooted in prejudice against our lives. That’s not God’s love. If there is an anthropomorphized spirit involved, it’s the other guy.

Also, it’s not just an individual’s choice. It’s not suicide, it is homicide. (whether deemed criminal or not). Health care professionals do the killing. They are involved, and their professional duty to care is supposed to be to not suggest death as just a menu of “treatment” options. Duty to care involves the trying the least invasive, least harmful options first. Fatal poison is not a healthcare option. It’s not up to them to give death on demand. And poverty is not a medical condition. Discrimination is not a medical condition. It is however, more common to people living with disabilities. And now we can’t depend on doctor’s professional standard of care.
 
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Spirit Wind 7

Living on the edge
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Messages
392
Location
Northern Ontario
Would a doctor give an application without asking you why , how or how do you see your life?
I would hope there would be some discussion with a lot of listening and compassion.

I do hugely agree that these matters are not an illness. But we have made a lot of bad choices as a society and some still do not get they are responsible for neglect when, say nothing done for homeless populations. Our city has had 7 studies saying the same thing and 43 years later nothing done.
Political will is a killer of just actions for those we have left out again and again. Or when the premier makes promises that will save lives then does nothing and people die because this was not done. When is he accountable for the loss of life?

There are so many failures of will to do what is right and just and faithful to life itself. Love is the only answer. real love unselfishly given. It seems Conservatives are the ones who mainly find it hard to help people. So many things offered to the rich, and those who donate to them.. at least here.

Conflicts of interest are rising. The Church's Insurer wants you to put your health records on their site. Yes, it's a choice I won't take up.

How do they get to have such things when they say they are separate, but it's under their umbrella that makes
it a real heavy conflicted interest.
Banks have companies that sell insurance of their own money. I know older bank managers find that a complicated lack of good will.
Glad they are no longer in it.

I think when we have to be alone a lot we may get too used to having things come to us. Having smart things that record
what we do isn't helpful.

I try to keep Wi Fi out of here. WHO says it's a cancer causing agent. Radiation 24/7 with 5G without checks and balances is not healthy.
Zoom is tiring with reason. It fires up many parts of the brain at the same time. We are nit used to that. I imagine that is more harmful in the long run,.It's a wonder any of us are sane.... meaning in our God mind... in my thinking that is.

God help us to discern and keep loving.
SW7
 
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