Loaves and Crumbs (Mark 7:24-30)

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Luce NDs said:
It would be denied and mostly ignored ... I've had indications that many ignore me because of unsound reason ... thus much silence!
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There would be your challenge. Express yourself in a way that would invite interaction.
 
paradox3 said:
There would be your challenge. Express yourself in a way that would invite interaction.
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I wouldn't dare ... I've been threatened about going to hell for critical dashes! I've even felt my ass burn because of the kerygma applied to my carrier ...

That's sufficient for me to regress ...
 
"
"But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples urged Him, saying, "send her away, for she keeps shouting after
us (Matthew 15:23)."
The woman might expect this reaction from Jesus, given the standard rabbinic attitude to speaking with women:

"Speak not much with a woman....One is not even to greet a woman (Mishnah Aboth 1:5)."
"Rather should the Torah be burned than entrusted to a woman...Whoever teaches his daughter the Torah
.is like one who teaches her obscenity. (Mishnah Sotah 3,4)."

Notice that the disciples seem influenced by this negative rabbinic attitude. But Jesus' silence is part of His test to develop her perseverance.

And consider this choice text (Sirach 42:14) from the Catholic Apocrypha Bible:
"Better is the wickedness of a man than a woman who does good; and it is the woman who brings shame and disgrace."
 
Asking myself which Jesus I prefer.

The Jesus who is initially unresponsive to the woman but is persuaded by her desperation? Or perhaps by her courage in matching wits with him?

The Jesus who grants her request when he becomes impressed by her faith?

The Jesus who deliberately imposes a test on the woman?
 
Imagine 2 Jesus ... one light in body (floating point) and one light in sol ...

Imagine abstract light and its shades ... therein the Shadow Noes!

Then there were Roman Nose ... and they were stuck everywhere in the known world for reason unknown to the aliens!

The sol is said to be illusive ... one has to go places for examination ... within tent? There many explorers find relief ... another paradox?
 
In Sunday school I was taught that Jesus was fully human and fully divine. Mathematically impossible but an interesting concept. Haven't heard about it in years.
 
paradox3 said:
Which interpretation gives us the most fully human Jesus? The most compassionate?
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These are not the same thing. I think you can be fully human and not be most compassionate. We are fully human when we acknowledge our flaws and sins, and lack of compassion is one of those. So I would argue that the Jesus who resists helping her or tests her is more human than if he had simply said "Sure!". That would have been most compassionate, but also leaned more into him being "fully divine". Humans, with rare exceptions, just don't work that way. And that's not a bad thing. Our imperfections are what give us room to grow and learn, and some of our greatest creativity comes out of that struggle with our flaws.
 
paradox3 said:
In Sunday school I was taught that Jesus was fully human and fully divine. Mathematically impossible but an interesting concept. Haven't heard about it in years.
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Thus the absolutes are up against the abstract and the absolutes are not sentient of the darkness within ... as a draw to delight!

Mentally resembling a deep well ... where thoughts are trashed ... the powers deny them ... thus the downers and Kubler-Ross Syndrome! Someone created it ...

In essence it is all out there but one may have to go some to retrieve much of that lost in the fray ... a disturbing trend to those not wishing to be cognizant of many metaphorical representations! Imagine eternal visitors ... Spooks!


Such things haunt the psyche cause they will not be held in a domain of awareness ... with rare exceptions! Psyche is the most alien intimate I have ...

One may have to look into a lot of shadows to see the infinite's Ide ... nebulous abstraction? May be Joe BLTZFX, or that character Pigpen blowing across the page Boyd ...
 
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paradox3 said:
Asking myself which Jesus I prefer.

The Jesus who is initially unresponsive to the woman but is persuaded by her desperation? Or perhaps by her courage in matching wits with him?

The Jesus who grants her request when he becomes impressed by her faith?

The Jesus who deliberately imposes a test on the woman?
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I could wholeheartedly support the first one, and can understand the reasoning behind the second one. However, the third version of Jesus, the one who would impose a "test" on a person in such dire circumstance as this woman is, seems unnecessarily cruel. It's almost like Trump dividing the US into 'red states' and 'blue states' to decide who is 'worthy' of receiving federal disaster relief, when all states have been equally hard hit.
 
Redbaron said:
I could wholeheartedly support the first one, and can understand the reasoning behind the second one. However, the third version of Jesus, the one who would impose a "test" on a person in such dire circumstance as this woman is, seems unnecessarily cruel. It's almost like Trump dividing the US into 'red states' and 'blue states' to decide who is 'worthy' of receiving federal disaster relief, when all states have been equally hard hit.
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Imagine Jesus in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd person waiting to burst forth from the darkness of the story! Thus the literary device for which the authority couldn't stand ... it avoided their laws of structure ... poesy? Highly irregular ...

A mob cannot see it ... thus some fool starts to shoot as an preposterous authority ... doesn't that trump all?
 
Redbaron said:
I could wholeheartedly support the first one, and can understand the reasoning behind the second one. However, the third version of Jesus, the one who would impose a "test" on a person in such dire circumstance as this woman is, seems unnecessarily cruel. It's almost like Trump dividing the US into 'red states' and 'blue states' to decide who is 'worthy' of receiving federal disaster relief, when all states have been equally hard hit.
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But humans do s**t like that all the time, and not just Trump. I've seen very liberal progressive people impose their "values" as a test of membership in a congregation or worthiness to lead a congregation. So Jesus doing it seems "fully human" to me. Very flawed, very warts and all, but definitely, recognizably, human.
 
Mendalla said:
But humans do s**t like that all the time, and not just Trump. I've seen very liberal progressive people impose their "values" as a test of membership in a congregation or worthiness to lead a congregation. So Jesus doing it seems "fully human" to me. Very flawed, very warts and all, but definitely, recognizably, human.
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True, but as the "Saviour of the World" this seems to be beneath him.
 
Mendalla said:
So maybe he wasn't the Saviour of the World. Maybe that's just hype and propaganda by the early church and he was really a divinely inspired but "fully human" prophet/teacher.
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Thus nature of rising thoughts out of all the fallacies collected! You can bet someone would say it smells of someone being knocked off the throne ... and the source goes flying ... reverse thrust as in rocket science ... justly observed!

Resolution! We really don't know that much about eternal matter ... it may be in essence ... like Ayres!
 
Mendalla said:
So maybe he wasn't the Saviour of the World. Maybe that's just hype and propaganda by the early church and he was really a divinely inspired but "fully human" prophet/teacher.
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Yes, fully human, and a tired one, who needed a break (thus the trip to the region away from his home stomping grounds). One who needed a break from all that was going on, and one who found himself facing someone in need (same old same old). His first reaction was likely as natural as the executive on the first day of holidays, whose cell phone rings....
 
Redbaron said:
Yes, fully human, and a tired one, who needed a break (thus the trip to the region away from his home stomping grounds). One who needed a break from all that was going on, and one who found himself facing someone in need (same old same old). His first reaction was likely as natural as the executive on the first day of holidays, whose cell phone rings....
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In this interpretation of the story, Jesus's compassion and appreciation for the woman emerge. That fits within the parameters of an expanding ministry to the Gentiles.

Why did Mark tell this story? why did Matthew?

If it is primarily a story about the woman's faith, I am liking it less and less. After all, Jesus rewarding the woman for her faith in him could be a tad egotistical.

But did Jesus actually do anything to heal the child? Neither account has Jesus laying on hands, mixing his spit with dirt or any other action

The story might be saying faith accomplishes something by its very nature.

So much to ponder here.
 
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