Liberal Christian denominations

[chansen]

I wonder if @chansen will be back to answer . . . it wouldn't be the first time he has ignored questions put to him on WC2.

Yeah, because I'm always ducking a challenge.

Or maybe I'm skiing my butt off all day and having friends over at night.

 

[PilgrimsProgress]

Happy New Year to those that have faith -and also to you chansen!......

As regards the Uniting Church of Australia, it is a very wide church. By that I mean there are congregations that are comparatively conservative, and congregations that are liberal, and congregations that are progressive. The ministers are chosen by the congregation, thus a progressive congregation will select a progressive minister, etc.
I've yet to attend two Uniting Churches of Australia that are the same. We have the same hymn book -but in progressive services you often get poetry, contemporary readings, and yes, I've even heard a Leonard Cohen song..........

 

[Luce NDs]

Poor spirit.

This too is addressed in the ancient myths of enlightenment as: "Blessed be the poor in spirit" the darker side absorbs illumination better than those that are bright enough to believe they know beta ... that's second best in many secular terms if you haven't encountered your dreams ...

Did some adept say these things are all about us ... a formed immersion in a dark formless void? A mean Scottish Dunk-ann?

 

[Seeler]

Pilgrim - that sounds very much like my experiences in the UCC. You can generally tell that you are in thee same denomination but the emphasis might be quite different. When I leeft my little church a decade ago, I had a choice between one on the progressive side and one that had moved so far in the opposite direction (even using other hymn books and Sunday School curriculum) that it was only recognizable as 'united' by its namee - I think you can guess which I choose.
But it seems to me that many of the churches here, especiallythe rural churches or those in little villages are not hung up on theology. Unless the minister shouts from the pulpit that your homosexual son is going to hell, or on the other hand rejects the Bible in favour of Chicken Soup and refused to say the Lords Prayer, they are more interested in a pastoral minister who visits the sick, lonely, bereaved. who gives hope in God's love, who encourages and supports their outreach, etc. And who cares about them.
I consider myself quite progreessive and have preached quite progressive sermons in a pastoral charge that was having a difficult time finding a partime minister. I got lots of compliments on my services and many people wished that I could be their minister. But they were over joyed when they found someone who was willing to take the position. I made some inquiries and found out that although she is a likeable person her theology leans towards quite conservative. They will give her their support, and welcome me back if she needs a Sunday off, and most will never realize that we approach Christianity from two different sides.

 

[Luce NDs]

Happy New Year to those that have faith -and also to you chansen!......

As regards the Uniting Church of Australia, it is a very wide church. By that I mean there are congregations that are comparatively conservative, and congregations that are liberal, and congregations that are progressive. The ministers are chosen by the congregation, thus a progressive congregation will select a progressive minister, etc.
I've yet to attend two Uniting Churches of Australia that are the same. We have the same hymn book -but in progressive services you often get poetry, contemporary readings, and yes, I've even heard a Leonard Cohen song..........

I say Hallelujah to that ... it is a signal from the ivory arche ... a bloody signal to a season as described by Ecclesiastes ... depends on where you're coming from ... few have that cogent state due to un-kohl activities ... passivity ... that's a questionable state where there may be cross-over ... a bondage of sol? Two heads being beta'n 1!

Did I say that in ancient terms the head was once Sah rah ... the head beam-Eire ... a flash of what was unseen by those outside the private focus! And that all in the twinkle of an aey; "want to go picking?" It sometimes can appear as a Roman thorn ... that's "þ" an icon of the fisherman coming across when Ur needed hymn ... thus that song of blues over the mortal session ... twas limited escape from reality! A crank/crack in time, or space? And those in Circe were bereft ... of thought!

Allows for ϾϿ that vision of loo'sing it when coming or going ... ... may resemble a hoot in the dark ... those distant riffles of humus?

 

[Luce NDs]

Some have no appreciation and respect for the bloody state ... humours ... just too stoically stuck ... skewered by fixations approaching "-ism"!

They wouldn't understand the quan-dumb state of passion ... until bit ... such is the understanding of gravitas ...

Few look into stuff of potential virtue ... thus the Shadows hang there ... out in the Oasis ... under that a sea of old salts ... consider what lies beneath Sa-Harah ... tis hairy ... digging in ancient lands ... then there is Cleo Patras ... odd hair and dark aeys ...

Aye, many are drawn in ... succubus? The kissof night on the edge of aspiration ... or a mire dream?

 

[paradox3]

Yeah, because I'm always ducking a challenge.

Or maybe I'm skiing my butt off all day and having friends over at night.

Glad to hear it. Yesterday was a beautiful day to be outside.

Next question I have for you: If we are to become a more secularized denomination (as you and others are advocating) how do you see us competing with other secular groups? What reason would there be to join with us rather than the Oasis Network, the Rotary Club, etc?

@BetteTheRed has mentioned the range of programming offered by United Churches but I am interested to know how you see it.

 

[paradox3]

Happy New Year to those that have faith -and also to you chansen!......

As regards the Uniting Church of Australia, it is a very wide church. By that I mean there are congregations that are comparatively conservative, and congregations that are liberal, and congregations that are progressive. The ministers are chosen by the congregation, thus a progressive congregation will select a progressive minister, etc.
I've yet to attend two Uniting Churches of Australia that are the same. We have the same hymn book -but in progressive services you often get poetry, contemporary readings, and yes, I've even heard a Leonard Cohen song..........

I agree with @Seeler. Our denomination is much the same in terms of variation from congregation to congregation.

We had an Australian teacher on an exchange program who joined us at our United church a few years ago. She was a member of the Uniting Church in Australia and found many similarities between the two denominations. I remember her saying the Australian church was newer (established in the 1960's perhaps?) but the three founding denominations were identical to ours.

Thanks for checking in on this thread and Happy New Year to you too. . . P3

 

[chansen]

Glad to hear it. Yesterday was a beautiful day to be outside.

Next question I have for you: If we are to become a more secularized denomination (as you and others are advocating) how do you see us competing with other secular groups? What reason would there be to join with us rather than the Oasis Network, the Rotary Club, etc?

@BetteTheRed has mentioned the range of programming offered by United Churches but I am interested to know how you see it.

You're a natural soft landing zone for Christians who no longer believe in the crazier stuff. Right now, they often end up atheists. You need to position yourselves as the place for post-Christians who are not so demanding of belief to congregate on Sundays. Atheists don't have that. You have a massive infrastructure advantage over us. Use it.

 

[paradox3]

You're a natural soft landing zone for Christians who no longer believe in the crazier stuff. Right now, they often end up atheists. You need to position yourselves as the place for chrusting and post-Christians who are not so demanding of belief to congregate on Sundays. Atheists don't have that. You have a massive infrastructure advantage over us.

We already serve as a landing zone for folks from more conservative denominations who do not wish to abandon faith altogether. I have never seen any stats but every congregation I have been in has had its share of ex-Catholics, etc.

We do have the infrastructure advantage, that is true. In fact we have more of it than we need.

So are you suggesting we become another version of Unitarian Universalism?

In many UU congregations you can find all manner of atheists, agnostics, post-Christians and so on. In addition to some non-traditional Christians, interfaith couples, etc.

 

[Luce NDs]

Once denying god ... one often picks up as a beta resonance with everything ... the eternal conception! I see not end to the debate over unseen things and Shadowy characters ... like the Cheshire Cat! Not a cheeziere feline to be found scurrying after MU s's ...

Some rough water may need to be crossed as secreted ... from high and hard spots ... just as non sequitor? When standing back and observing ... tis the pain of learning ... metaphorically a mire window in heaving ... a port hole in a storm?

Does an eternal God encompass the wholly thing and thus be in an opposing state of chaos to knowing?

 

[Seeler]

We already serve as a landing zone for folks from more conservative denominations who do not wish to abandon faith altogether. I have never seen any stats but every congregation I have been in has had its share of ex-Catholics, etc.

We do have the infrastructure advantage, that is true. In fact we have more of it than we need.

So are you suggesting we become another version of Unitarian Universalism?

In many UU congregations you can find all manner of atheists, agnostics, post-Christians and so on. In addition to some non-traditional Christians, interfaith couples, etc.

Chansen, and Paradox (and others folloowing this 'thread-within a thread') - I get the impression that Chansen would like us to give up as a Christian church and become an atheist gathering. I don't see that happening.
As Paradox says, we already attract many who do not fit in with more conservative denominations. In my congregation we also attract some from the UU - they like many aspects of UU (I do too - I've often thought that if I couldn't be Christian I'd be UU) but they miss Jesus.
Some go back and forth - attending both on a semi-regular basis - or Bible study in one and book club in another, and alternate worship between the two.
ps - we also have ppeople who used to be Baptist or RC or other religions. Some RCs retain their RC membership while attending and supporting the UCC, others tend to give up their former association.
So no, I don't see the UCC ceasing to be a Christian church, open and welcoming to all.

 

[Pinga]

Me either, Seeler.

 

[crazyheart]

Well, here goes.

I have preached in many churches in this city and surrounding.

The first time at the church told me what it was like.

How they processed was always a tell. A procession,
l
very dignified, in a formal row from soloist to preacher.

I knew right then that they said the old creeds, that there hymns

were stately and no one laughed. A retired minister in the congregation guffawed.

He said," CrazyHeart, come again"

Some services were started by the choir and preacher coming for either direction.

I knew it was a looser theology.

another, the congregation stood when preacher came in. Hated that. !! Standing for person

of power.

Some- kids in service, others no kids.

But my point, all different, different hymns, different order of worship, different

prayers and creeds and place of children BUT all United Church. At home in all, but realizing

that some were liberal, some were progressive, some \I would go to, some I wouldn't.

But in all these churches you are able to bring in things you would like to see in the service and

after Sundays. But it takes a commitment, it takes time and it takes patience, Change comes

from the people.

I was appointed at a church that was far from where I was theologically. I was told

by a wise woman that you were not all in the same place. Some you would be ahead

of and some you would be behind. Catch up or wait and you will have a church that

you want.

When I left the church after working 1/3and 1/2 time for 10 years, here are my proudest achievements,

children taking communion

first woman in ministry position
in that church.

tine with children that was so popular some "atheists" went to Tim's for coffee right after
and came back and picked up children after church school. Became very good friends
-one was a disbarred Lutheran minister.

I meet parents of these kids now who at grown and married with children of their own and

the parents say the kids still talk about those days. Do they go to church. I don't know

but they all could be a step ahead and we have to catch up.

Thanks be to God for the opportunity I was given in the United Church.

 

[Pinga]

@crazyheart , thanks for the gifts you have offered the church.

 

[Luce NDs]

Of course this is all a subtle scheme of the devil when thinking it thoroughly through as a complex-ite!

Thus the disbarred thoughts and wisdom ... in passion activities one cannot accept conceptions from afar ... or a fair relationship ... what is a' theism but a conjecture or theory about spaces and time where we haven't ventured to project a thought as spiritual beings in essence ...

 

[Dave Henderson]

Whatever a denomination, or a particular church believes, evangelism is necessary and we in the United Church need to do a better job of it. I know "evangelism" is a bad word to many. But at its most basic, evangelism is telling about the good news that you have experienced to others. It's necessary whether your church is liberal or conservative. Christianity is a bottom up faith. It begins with one person who has experienced an amazing thing, sharing that amazing thing with someone else. Personally, I believe that in order to tell the story as it should be told, one should have a good understanding of what makes it good news to them. That's where faith formation comes in I guess...note I am not trying to articulate the nature of God or faith for anyone, just the fact that once articulated, we are called to share it.

 

[Luce NDs]

Ground level experience as broad-based ... bottom's up to that ... but be cautious of the fall thingy ... it can be nichie ... flaws for the eve angels to fallow through ...

 

[chansen]

Whatever a denomination, or a particular church believes, evangelism is necessary and we in the United Church need to do a better job of it. I know "evangelism" is a bad word to many. But at its most basic, evangelism is telling about the good news that you have experienced to others. It's necessary whether your church is liberal or conservative. Christianity is a bottom up faith. It begins with one person who has experienced an amazing thing, sharing that amazing thing with someone else. Personally, I believe that in order to tell the story as it should be told, one should have a good understanding of what makes it good news to them. That's where faith formation comes in I guess...note I am not trying to articulate the nature of God or faith for anyone, just the fact that once articulated, we are called to share it.

And the problem is you have no firm set of beliefs to market. You're not complete dicks about what you believe. That's good, but it hurts you because your message is not simple.

Make no mistake, you would benefit numbers-wise from a more strict faith. You'd just be less tolerable to everyone else.

Tough call.

 

[Luce NDs]

Complexity doesn't count for authority that likes simple ...