With children, we need to use very concrete imagary. I was amused b y Phyllis Trible's title for a scholarly article on Jesus' baptism by John. She entitled it, "Three Men and a Bird." The 3 men were, of course, John the Baptist, Jesus, and His heavenly Father/. The Bird was the dove as a symbol of the Holy Spirit.
How do you explain the Trinity to kids?
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GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
This is interesting where I sit:
"Is that a point in favour of God, or an indication that no one has a bloody clue what they're talking about and are making it up as they go?" chansen
It is surely an indication that some have no bloody clue. Not sure why chansen suggests "no one" when it ought to be plain that there are many, on both sides of the equation, who have noticed a clue and carefully elaborated a hypothesis; which they subject to rigorous experimentation in the hope of validation by the evidence.
What does it take to be truthful. Factual veracity? Not where I sit.
"Making it up as they go" sounds deprecatory. "Some have developed a disciplined capacity for free creative expression" offers a positive appreciation of such language pioneers. My quarrel is with any who insists that I conform to some external definition of identity and purpose.
Do we not struggle to find language adequate to our communication aspirations?
Does status quo not present a significant resistance and refusal.
George
chansen
Had a point all along
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In all seriousness, I think the best way to explain things like this to kids, is to come right out with it, but explain it in terms of, "Some people believe...." instead of, "This is how the Trinity works..."Thanks for all the thoughful - and entertaining - responses! So last week I went to work for a day & my thread about words in a hymn devolved into a discussion about food - and this week, it's an epistle on geometry that shows up! And when I do meet revjohn at Conference AGM next month, I will make sure to introduce myself as Patrick & see what happens
I appreciate all the thoughtful discussion ... it's an interesting challenge to understand what all this means to me personally in my adult years, and to consider how to convey it to kids.
And paradox3 - we can't forget that prayer shawl pattern - knit 3, purl 3 ... Trinitarian for sure
When you explain matter-of-factly how something works, a kid will bend what they know to this new "factual" information they are being told. But you're not explaining fact, you're explaining faith. One particular interpretation of one particular faith. So, it's a little disingenuous to say what the Trinity *is*, when clearly, you don't know and are just grasping at anything that comes in threes.
Give them some credit, and explain it as a belief instead of a certainty. Now, they're thinking instead of memorizing. Maybe they will decide they believe it, too. If you do, it will certainly influence them. But let them come to a belief, rather than tell them what to believe.
crazyheart
Rest In Peace: tomorrow,tomorrow
y ou know Chansen, you are a Christian in disguise, I think.
chansen
Had a point all along
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No, I try very hard to make sense and use simple language. I think Christians, even "liberal" Christians, try to be as confusing as possible to hide the fact that they're holding an empty bag.
But looking back on my last post, I feel like I should apologize for it. That was the most serious, boring post I wrote today. I try in inject something fun into everything I write here, and that last one may have made a lot of sense, but it was boring.
But looking back on my last post, I feel like I should apologize for it. That was the most serious, boring post I wrote today. I try in inject something fun into everything I write here, and that last one may have made a lot of sense, but it was boring.
Carolla
wondering & wandering
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That's the way I always spoke to my own kids chansen
Still do. We've had many interesting discussions!
chansen
Had a point all along
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bulls**t. Just because someone thinks they found a "clue" about God, does not refute the "haven't got a clue" line. Yes, people think they find clues about God all the time. Some of them are subjected to the scientific method. They have demonstrated squat. What we have instead, are images on toast and old bed sheets, which excite the easily excitable.
An occasional fact would be nice. Otherwise, what you have are a collection of fictional stories of varying moral character.
Good. I wasn't misunderstood.
I think the government and credit card companies would prefer if you conformed to one identity, but that has nothing to do with me.
I struggle to find my cell phone. I find communication about my personal convictions easy to write about, because they're mine.
Every person who tries to tell you about God thinks they are the ones who understand it. Perhaps they will trot out the bible, as if words written by ancient people, then edited, translated and compiled at various times to suit agendas of the day, has any bearing whatsoever on the nature of any supreme being, should one or more exist at all.
Using perplexing language and then saying that it's a struggle to explain God, should set off warning bells that what you're likely doing isn't so much explaining, as it is attempting to convince somebody of something and maybe convince yourself of it in the process.
chansen
Had a point all along
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What percentage are still Christians?That's the way I always spoke to my own kids chansen
Carolla
wondering & wandering
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I think they would both say that they are Christians. They both had a lot of very positive experiences in their church life when younger. Do they now go to church on Sundays? No. Is that okay with me - sure, the choice is theirs to make. I didn't go to church either when I was their age. When they're here, they do often come to church with me, and I love to have their company.
Carolla
wondering & wandering
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I think you're overgeneralizing here. I would agree that some fall into the category you describe. I certainly don't. I could only do my best to describe my own understanding & experience of God - which I often don't fully understand. Anybody else's understanding or experience might be very different from mine.
I've neither been asked to nor attempted to try to describe the trinity to kids.
How about...hmm...take out a piece of art the kid has drawn (freestyle not formulaic) and ask "Where did this come from?", Who painted it?", "Whose idea was it?" ...so, the originator is the Father, the crafts-person is the Son, and the idea is the Spirit - but they are all "one" toward the same purpose of making the painting.
How about...hmm...take out a piece of art the kid has drawn (freestyle not formulaic) and ask "Where did this come from?", Who painted it?", "Whose idea was it?" ...so, the originator is the Father, the crafts-person is the Son, and the idea is the Spirit - but they are all "one" toward the same purpose of making the painting.
To expand...Maybe it could be a whole project...making handmade paper, then "watercolour" paints made from berries, dandelion petals, and coffee grounds or mud and natural dyes...things they gather on a nature walk...then ask them to paint the very best things that they can imagine...then afterwards ask the questions in the above post.
chansen
Had a point all along
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Right, but you're not the one telling people what God is. If you're explaining what your understanding is, and that you "don't fully understand", that's not the same, and not what my post is referring to.
Then attach all the paintings together into one big patchwork mosaic. Or it could be painted in collaboration on one big scroll...yeah. Oops, chansen posted before I got this up.
chansen
Had a point all along
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So, if the kid answers, "Me", "Me" and "Mine," then you're gonna correct them to the answers you wanted them to provide?
Plot twist: The resulting mosaic looks like Cthulhu.
Sure. Some find that appealing. Inanna would be okay with that.
More to the point is it would be organic, random, and collaborative. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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oops
If the kid answers, me, me, mine...I would say imagine God is the originator, the crafts person, and the idea...for everything. Even you. Creator/Father, Craftsperson/Jesus, Inspiration/ Spirit.
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
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ok, i've said Hastur 3 times, now what?
[image source: google image search]
why choose the lesser evil? cthulhu for PM in 2015!
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pray or don't pray, its all the same to great cthulhu @ the Storm Crow Tavern
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and so it goes
chansen
Had a point all along
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Oh come on. You're going all creation-y on me here.
I'd applaud the kid who said, "Tell God to suck it. I made this."