Hey Jude! (Jude 1: 1 - 25)

[Mystic]

No one has responded to my challenge in post #19 to find "Waldo," the neglected spiritual gem that for me is the highlight of Jude. Well, here it is:
"Build yourself up in your most holy faith. Pray in the Holy Spirit (Jude 20)."

Praying in the Spirit is not ordinary prayer; it is Spirit-directed prayer that builds up one's faith. A variation of praying in the Spirit is speaking in tongues, which also builds up one's faith: "Those who speak in tongues build up themselves (1 Corinthians 14:4)." In another thread I have described an experience of speaking in tongues at age 16 that is by far the high point of my life. But in this thread I want to focus on Spirit-directed prayer in our own language.

Paul teaches that a high state of alertness and a willingness to persevere a long time is needed to enter this state of prayer consciousness:

"Pray in the Spirit at all times in every prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert and always persevere in supplication for all the saints (Ephesians 6:18)."

I learned this lesson the hard way when I was a disillusioned young college student. I decided to fast for lunch after the Sunday service and instead go up to the steeple room and pray for hours. For the first 45 minutes I was extremely uncomfortable. My knees were sore and I ran out of things to say in my increasingly mechanical and seemingly fruitless effort at sustained prayer. Then something amazing happened. The Spirit took over my mind and prayer poured from my mind effortlessly, spontaneously, and joyfully--for hours. Those prayers were dramatically answered. On 2 separate Sundays I undertook prayer vigils for hours in that steeple room with the same marvelous result.

Spirit-directed prayer allows the Spirit to pray through our inarticulate sighs and longings for what we really need, of which we may be unaware:

"Likewise, the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we don't know how to pray as we ought, but that very Spirit intercedes with sighs too deep for words (Romans 8:26)."

 

[paradox3]

Thanks @Mystic
For me, the neglected spiritual gem & highlight in this reading is mercy. (v. 21 - 23)

 

[Mystic]

paradox3: "For me, the neglected spiritual gem & highlight in this reading is mercy. (v. 21 - 23)"

There are 600 million reasons why Jude's instruction to "pray in the Spirit" is its most enduring and significant teaching. That's the estimated number of global Pentecostals and Charismatics, which is the fastest growing religious movement in the world. And the key to this unprecedented growth is their experience of "praying in the Spirit" and their related experience of baptism in tbe Holy Spirit. For documentation of all this, read:

The Explosive Growth of Pentecostal-Charismatic Christianity in the Global South, and Its Implications for Catholic Evangelization - Homiletic & Pastoral Review

Most Catholics are unaware that the heart of global Christianity is moving south—into South America, Africa, and even to Asia. We who live in the global

www.hprweb.com

By contrast, UCCan stresses "mercy" and the pursuit of social justice, but UCCan is the denomination with the greatest decline. For documentation. read:

The United Church's numbers have dropped more than any other denomination | Broadview Magazine

Canada's largest Protestant denomination is shrinking the fastest. The latest census paints a grim picture of The United Church of Canada, which lost a whopping 40 percent of affiliates between 2011 and 2021, falling to 1.2 million people from roughly two million.

broadview.org

And energized by their powerful emotional experience of praying in the Spirit and Spirit baptism, global Pentecostals thrive from their effective programs to meet the social and economic needs of their people.

 

[Luce NDs]

Are charismatics just flaming desires expressed as something to prey upon what appears to be a lesser power of denied populace?

Can this parallel the news item that states western economics is simply driven by fear and avarice? All this in ignorance of what it does to the populace as a social order being thrown into chaos ...

Just consider what the state of Ever Grande is doing to the world that invested in the organization that is going bankrupt. Can one sue the far eastern philosophy that is mysterious to the west? "Never the two will meet?" The story goes on as a myth because of all that we don't know ...abyss of deficiency?

Society appears (incarnate activity) to be a disaster in the light of business activity (economy); a self-consuming anti activity? May be represented by Ouranos ...

Thus winning by a nos? Nos Tra Da Mus ... one must accommodate the stink as it raises sentient! What's sentient? Can it be explained as a odd feeling ... in a surrounding where folk are encouraged to know not? In efficiency methods ... education is just one sense that is eliminated ... because if you didn't know better ... would still do things of naivete? Tere are folk that are stoic about the matter ... obsessed, possessed, compulsive about dropping intelligence out of their emotional states ... it is he grandiose wish! Then there would be peace, quiet and silence and all that remains without the rackets of governing business holding sway over B Systems!

Some find it unbelievable where avarice leads us ... yet there are such control freaks ... trying to direct things in which the baseline is poorly understood ...

In short there is nothing you can do about it as many believe it is fate and thus some merely observe so as to learn something for what follows as coincidental offshoot from the remnants ... that's Le f't! Some say f't is like augured ... or a boar ... so don't get into it ... yet power and corruption are well dispersed and disseminated ... that's deci mate 'n ... a human flaw! The result is calm post ... spectaculars eliminated ... all through the house! No critters detected? An epiphany ... some say revelation or apocalyptical instant ... utterly shocking ... as nothing often is during a critical moment ... of spin!

Spin factors are said to be important in business ... otherwise something presenting a need to understand ... A Qui Awe?

Like Law Rinse of Arabia responded on what was good about the desert? He said: "it was clean and clear" and thus few rackets ... but a feint buzz overhead ... kin dive out there, or over and above ! Heavens ... expect flash in the gaur Don, when all is quiet!

Better to write it as writ than to say and declare it "to be so ..." well unfinished! Life is a rough presentation ... accrued? Few gather much as extraction of the alternate kind! To much like thought ...

 

[Luce NDs]

... HEI (high explosive and incinerating ... burning wishes? Give it a little thought for the dousing activity ...

Thus HEI daze ... life celebrations? Someone escaped the drag ... the monsters druid out of me ... Xi Meragh! (some say Merck) as pharma doubt ... far Maw?

Now it is said to be a place for war ... so someone believes they can control ide ... as ide AL! We watch from a hind point in time ... backstage? An old PM called commons a stage ...

Lesson: never fill in the þlank prey'rs or they will consume ... leave them hollow cast ... for there's no much toem ... the emptying goes on ... can one understand the void of conscience? The idea of absence ...

 

[Waterfall]

paradox3: "For me, the neglected spiritual gem & highlight in this reading is mercy. (v. 21 - 23)"

There are 600 million reasons why Jude's instruction to "pray in the Spirit" is its most enduring and significant teaching. That's the estimated number of global Pentecostals and Charismatics, which is the fastest growing religious movement in the world. And the key to this unprecedented growth is their experience of "praying in the Spirit" and their related experience of baptism in tbe Holy Spirit. For documentation of all this, read:

The Explosive Growth of Pentecostal-Charismatic Christianity in the Global South, and Its Implications for Catholic Evangelization - Homiletic & Pastoral Review

Most Catholics are unaware that the heart of global Christianity is moving south—into South America, Africa, and even to Asia. We who live in the global

www.hprweb.com

By contrast, UCCan stresses "mercy" and the pursuit of social justice, but UCCan is the denomination with the greatest decline. For documentation. read:

The United Church's numbers have dropped more than any other denomination | Broadview Magazine

Canada's largest Protestant denomination is shrinking the fastest. The latest census paints a grim picture of The United Church of Canada, which lost a whopping 40 percent of affiliates between 2011 and 2021, falling to 1.2 million people from roughly two million.

broadview.org

And energized by their powerful emotional experience of praying in the Spirit and Spirit baptism, global Pentecostals thrive from their effective programs to meet the social and economic needs of their people.

Off topic a bit(a lot) but under your "The United Churches number" url, I was shocked to read that in order to attract a more racially diverse church,they have endorsed and hired ministers into the United Church that preach against LGBTQ lifestyle because they have immigrated from countries that are against this and a culture that doesn't tolerate this lifestyle.
Reading this was absolutely shocking to me from a church that claims to be inclusive and allowing ministers to be hired to preach otherwise!

 

[Luce NDs]

Off topic a bit(a lot) but under your "The United Churches number" url, I was shocked to read that in order to attract a more racially diverse church,they have endorsed and hired ministers into the United Church that preach against LGBTQ lifestyle because they have immigrated from countries that are against this and a culture that doesn't tolerate this lifestyle.
Reading this was absolutely shocking to me from a church that claims to be inclusive and allowing ministers to be hired to preach otherwise!

Recall that corruption and advantage is everywhere ... allowing folk to win if they understand it ... some win on pure desire of demolishing ...

In tent is best then can up and move on ... is this logical, or are humans marked with that aspect of the irrational trend? Rationale is thus out on that count ...

 

[Mendalla]

they have endorsed and hired ministers into the United Church that preach against LGBTQ lifestyle because they have immigrated from countries that are against this and a culture that doesn't tolerate this lifestyle.

Shouldn't "essential agreement" be with the church's values as well as its theology? Then again, there are still, as I understand it, churches within the UCCan that won't accept gay clergy or perform same sex marriages, which is just a more subtle form of not tolerating people who are LGBTQ (it's not a "lifestyle" by the way, any more than being heterosexual or cisgendered is a "lifestyle". There are many lifestyles possible for LGBTQ as there are for all people). It's a bit sad that Gretta Vosper being an atheist was seen as a bigger problem than this hate-mongering.

 

[Waterfall]

And energized by their powerful emotional experience of praying in the Spirit and Spirit baptism, global Pentecostals thrive from their effective programs to meet the social and economic needs of their people.

No one has responded to my challenge in post #19 to find "Waldo," the neglected spiritual gem that for me is the highlight of Jude. Well, here it is:
"Build yourself up in your most holy faith. Pray in the Holy Spirit (Jude 20)."

Praying in the Spirit is not ordinary prayer; it is Spirit-directed prayer that builds up one's faith. A variation of praying in the Spirit is speaking in tongues, which also builds up one's faith: "Those who speak in tongues build up themselves (1 Corinthians 14:4)." In another thread I have described an experience of speaking in tongues at age 16 that is by far the high point of my life. But in this thread I want to focus on Spirit-directed prayer in our own language.

Paul teaches that a high state of alertness and a willingness to persevere a long time is needed to enter this state of prayer consciousness:

"Pray in the Spirit at all times in every prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert and always persevere in supplication for all the saints (Ephesians 6:18)."

I learned this lesson the hard way when I was a disillusioned young college student. I decided to fast for lunch after the Sunday service and instead go up to the steeple room and pray for hours. For the first 45 minutes I was extremely uncomfortable. My knees were sore and I ran out of things to say in my increasingly mechanical and seemingly fruitless effort at sustained prayer. Then something amazing happened. The Spirit took over my mind and prayer poured from my mind effortlessly, spontaneously, and joyfully--for hours. Those prayers were dramatically answered. On 2 separate Sundays I undertook prayer vigils for hours in that steeple room with the same marvelous result.

Spirit-directed prayer allows the Spirit to pray through our inarticulate sighs and longings for what we really need, of which we may be unaware:

"Likewise, the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we don't know how to pray as we ought, but that very Spirit intercedes with sighs too deep for words (Romans 8:26)."

I can find no reference in the Old testament or New Testament that we are to pray to the Holy Spirit...(possibly in Ezekiel 37:9) where the Holy Spirit is directly addressed.
We are to pray to the Father in the N.T. (only) and OT (primarily).

 

[Waterfall]

Shouldn't "essential agreement" be with the church's values as well as its theology? Then again, there are still, as I understand it, churches within the UCCan that won't accept gay clergy or perform same sex marriages, which is just a more subtle form of not tolerating people who are LGBTQ (it's not a "lifestyle" by the way, any more than being heterosexual or cisgendered is a "lifestyle". There are many lifestyles possible for LGBTQ as there are for all people). It's a bit sad that Gretta Vosper being an atheist was seen as a bigger problem than this hate-mongering.

Guilty of using the word, lifestyle" often get things wrong....have patience.

 

[Mendalla]

Guilty of using the word, lifestyle" often get things wrong....have patience.

No sweat. Just wanted to call attention to the reality. My core point is that I don't get how a supposed "ally" church can allow ministers with those views to preach.

 

[paradox3]

It's too bad we didn't take the bold step of becoming an Affirming denomination.

 

[Mendalla]

It's too bad we didn't take the bold step of becoming an Affirming denomination.

Amen.

 

[paradox3]

Amen.

The fallout might have been immense. I have been following events in the United Methodist Church in the US with interest

 

[Mendalla]

Taking fallout for a good cause should be acceptable risk or nothing will ever change.

 

[paradox3]

It's interesting that Jude calls out the "certain men" for a number of things but defiling the flesh is at the top of the list. (v. 8) Giving bombastic speeches comes last. (v. 16)

 

[paradox3]

The Explosive Growth of Pentecostal-Charismatic Christianity in the Global South, and Its Implications for Catholic Evangelization - Homiletic & Pastoral Review

Most Catholics are unaware that the heart of global Christianity is moving south—into South America, Africa, and even to Asia. We who live in the global

www.hprweb.com

This is an old article written from a Catholic perspective. Is Pentecostal membership still on the upswing or has it peaked?

By contrast, UCCan stresses "mercy" and the pursuit of social justice, but UCCan is the denomination with the greatest decline. For documentation. read:

The United Church's numbers have dropped more than any other denomination | Broadview Magazine

Canada's largest Protestant denomination is shrinking the fastest. The latest census paints a grim picture of The United Church of Canada, which lost a whopping 40 percent of affiliates between 2011 and 2021, falling to 1.2 million people from roughly two million.

broadview.org

Sad but true.

 

[Luce NDs]

Shouldn't "essential agreement" be with the church's values as well as its theology? Then again, there are still, as I understand it, churches within the UCCan that won't accept gay clergy or perform same sex marriages, which is just a more subtle form of not tolerating people who are LGBTQ (it's not a "lifestyle" by the way, any more than being heterosexual or cisgendered is a "lifestyle". There are many lifestyles possible for LGBTQ as there are for all people). It's a bit sad that Gretta Vosper being an atheist was seen as a bigger problem than this hate-mongering.

Could this be as a cooperative event when brutes in business demand more competition and thus anarchy! Lady Macbeths' kettle of fish ...

The expanse of choice depends on access to the "C" ... enlightening???? Vapors rise ... Xi Nan Do agh ... maybe Shenandoah fogs? Odd nuances ...

 

[Mendalla]

It's interesting that Jude calls out the "certain men" for a number of things but defiling the flesh is at the top of the list. (v. 8) Giving bombastic speeches comes last. (v. 16)

And 7 specifically cites sexual immorality and specifically Sodom and Gomorrah, which the conservative crowd always tend to assume means "gay sex", though other interpretations have been suggested. To be honest, one of the reasons Christian denominations, including the UCCan, have problems seeing their way to a truly just relationship with LGBTQ is the source material. There's just way too many things in there that homophobes and transphobes (the Venn diagram has a strong overlap but there are transphobic gay people so they are definitely not one and the same) can use to defend their prejudices. Folks like chansen are not altogether wrong that The Bible is not always helpful when you try to do the right thing.

 

[Luce NDs]

And 7 specifically cites sexual immorality and specifically Sodom and Gomorrah, which the conservative crowd always tend to assume means "gay sex", though other interpretations have been suggested. To be honest, one of the reasons Christian denominations, including the UCCan, have problems seeing their way to a truly just relationship with LGBTQ is the source material. There's just way too many things in there that homophobes and transphobes (the Venn diagram has a strong overlap but there are transphobic gay people so they are definitely not one and the same) can use to defend their prejudices. Folks like chansen are not altogether wrong that The Bible is not always helpful when you try to do the right thing.

Conceptual chaos or just anarchy's ... as powers believe forte and brute is best ... yet still the hypo condition ... from understanding deep hypothesis ... straight from the mysterious well ...