Hey Jude! (Jude 1: 1 - 25)

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paradox3 said:
They are greedy and only serve themselves at the love feasts. They insult the glorious. They grumble and find fault & give bombastic speeches.

Quite a bunch of dudes to find in a church community!
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I dunno. I can think of members in any church, or other community I know, who might be so described.
 
paradox3 said:
Well I have been wondering how the ungodly men turn the grace of God into a license for evil (v. 4)
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Is love and desire lumped in with avarice in the mental digestion? I don't know ... as it seems sophisticated and I'm told to keep everything simle ... if God (everything) is simple ... what the ...

Thus we depart from threads into heavier chords: "Ta Dum ..."
 
No one has any thoughts about mercy?

It drops as a gentle rain from heaven, Shakespeare wrote in The Merchant of Venice. The bard went on to say that mercy blesses the one who gives and the one who receives. Shakespeare also called mercy an attribute of God.
 
Waterfall said:
You need a lesson on why raping men or women is not to "get to know" them, but an act of violence.....period!
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No, you need a lesson in Hebrew. The sense in which the Sodomites want to "know" the male guests is already a sense of sexual violence.
 
Question, mystic, do you have no feeling of the concept of rape as humiliation? Just as women have historically been more raped, and more rapeable, due to cultural norms, how is humiliating angel guests in the form of men worse than humiliating virgin women? Does the sheer horror of both scenarios not make you think that there's a bigger lesson here, and it's all about violence, and not necessarily about the gender of the violated?

I suspect that you have never been raped, and while I'm glad for that fact, it seems that you may lack some empathetic abilities around the topic, and might, to put it kindly, shut up.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Question, mystic, do you have no feeling of the concept of rape as humiliation?
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the Sodomites illustrate the ancient xenophobic practice of men raping men to humiliate them.
It's disgusting that you would even pose the question of how I feel about it, since it is the standard scholarly understanding of the Sodom story.
BetteTheRed said:
Just as women have historically been more raped, and more rapeable, due to cultural norms, how is humiliating angel guests in the form of men worse than humiliating virgin women?
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What you don't get is the obvious fact that the men of Sodom don't know the male visitors are angels!
So you are just dumb enough to believe that I agree with Lot's offer to put his virgin daughters outside to be raped to save his male guests?
BetteTheRed said:
Does the sheer horror of both scenarios not make you think that there's a bigger lesson here, and it's all about violence, and not necessarily about the gender of the violated?
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You need to actually read the story to get its point. The point is that Lot made a poor choice when Abraham offered him to take his livestock to Canaan or the better grazing of the region of wicked Sodom (13;8i-13). God warmed Abraham, about the wickedness of Sodom, but Lot didn't get he message.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Have read the story. Disagree on the interpretation.

Rape is a gendered issue.
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The ugly rape issue is secondary to the story. Read from chap. 13 on.
But the bottom line for the thread's purpose is that Jude's referemce tp the "sexual immorality" and "unnatural lust" demonstrated by the men of Sodom is the standard interpretation of modern Bible commentaries and the explanatory note in the NRSV.
 
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Back to Jude.

The angels who did not keep within their proper domain (v. 6) are interesting. Could this be a reference to the fallen angels of Genesis?
 
In Genesis 1 the sons of God marry the daughters of men. I had always thought the phraseology just meant the human race.

But on another thread I learned from @Mystic that these sons of men are usually considered to be angels.

The intermarriage results in a race of giants. There is a theory that God caused the flood to get rid of these hybrid creatures.

Jude deems to provide the fallen angels as another example of sexual immorality.
 
You can certainly see, when you weave together the scattered bits of text about angels, fallen and otherwise, what inspired Milton to write Paradise Lost.
 
BetteTheRed said:
You can certainly see, when you weave together the scattered bits of text about angels, fallen and otherwise, what inspired Milton to write Paradise Lost.
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Angels certainly show up from time to time in the Scriptures. Does it say anywhere they are former human beings? Or do we get that notion from popular culture?
 
paradox3 said:
Hmm . . . So many things I never realized about our Old Testament!
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It is as mysterious and frightening as God (or word) is and thus many fear reading literature due to the facts that they might learn something they didn't know as prior! One must research priors to see where the primary agels evolved from ...

Illiteracy is said to be best ... by great winners and powers of deceit! It is just how one should lay it out in the pages and stacks ... some people a terrorized by the great book. King Henry called his book the Great Bible! Isn't that fantasy?
 
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