Heaven and Hell
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Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
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How are you even putting those two statements together - only one which I made. chansen - I don't hate science. For one thing - I'm very thankful for the medical advances science has made in recent times. A couple of centuries ago - due to my epilepsy - I'd be locked up in an asylum somewhere. Go back further and you'd find someone like me accused of being demon-possessed - and maybe even hunted and killed for being that. As for yelling at people I don't like - sure - I've done some of that in my time. Who hasn't? It's not something I'm proud of - and I honestly hope I never do again.
Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
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chansen - What does "loose" mean in this context?
Love is the redemptive power of the Spirit of God. As churches serve their greater communities with love - the communities and the individuals therein become transformed for the better. There is thus no need for churches to hit outsiders with slick sales pitches trying to sucker them into God's Kingdom.
Cruciform communities [cross-shaped communities] act toward the world the same way that Christ did. They humble themselves and become even as slaves for the common good. There's probably many Christians who don't know the term. It's one that I learned in seminary - and it's a concept that all Christians - including myself - can certainly do a better job of living out.
Jesus was victorious over the evil powers when he voluntarily died on the cross and was resurrected. However - the forces do continue to have some degree of control over the world system which they had hijacked. We currently live at the crossroads of two eras. We live between the time following Christ's resurrection and the day upon which he will gloriously return. God's Kingdom has been established and is manifest in his Church - however it is not yet here in its fullness. Churches should act to bring people in their neighborhoods away from the powers' control and into the eternal life that Christ provides.
Hope that helps.
Love is the redemptive power of the Spirit of God. As churches serve their greater communities with love - the communities and the individuals therein become transformed for the better. There is thus no need for churches to hit outsiders with slick sales pitches trying to sucker them into God's Kingdom.
Cruciform communities [cross-shaped communities] act toward the world the same way that Christ did. They humble themselves and become even as slaves for the common good. There's probably many Christians who don't know the term. It's one that I learned in seminary - and it's a concept that all Christians - including myself - can certainly do a better job of living out.
Jesus was victorious over the evil powers when he voluntarily died on the cross and was resurrected. However - the forces do continue to have some degree of control over the world system which they had hijacked. We currently live at the crossroads of two eras. We live between the time following Christ's resurrection and the day upon which he will gloriously return. God's Kingdom has been established and is manifest in his Church - however it is not yet here in its fullness. Churches should act to bring people in their neighborhoods away from the powers' control and into the eternal life that Christ provides.
Hope that helps.
Seeler
Well-Known Member
No Chansen - it isn't a UCC thing.
I went once, invited by a friend who felt that she should go because people from her work place had invited her. A pretty good meal (by donation) a boring, but short, movie, and an equally boring and simplistic discussion - if you can call it discussion when the leader reads the questions from a book that gives suggested answers.
The one session I remember was about sin or evil in the world. Somehow the course connected evil with charm bracelets and oujie boards. I asked why, with famine, war, poverty, etc. to worry about, we were spending our time discussing the 'evils' of costume jewellry and a pre-teen slumber-party game. The leader quickly moved on to the next question in the leader's guide, and I was ostracized for the rest of the evening. That was 20 years ago. I doubt if it has changed much.
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
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The default attitude for a human being is no longer, thank g_odness, getting wet from imagining a fellow human being tormented for eternity because they don't believe as you do...
It can be a hard habit to kick, enjoying someone else's suffering
This is still one of my favourite riffs, an online comic called "Dresden Codak"
Seeler
Well-Known Member
I think this would probably depend on the personalities and abilities of the facilitators. Facilitating an open discussion requires a lot of skill. The one time I attended an Alpha course (which I told about above) the leaders followed the book - led the discussion in the direction they thought it should go - avoided the hard questions - and rewarded those who parrotted the 'suggested' answers with smiles and words of encouragement.
Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
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In that case - they didn't follow the Alpha Manual very well.
crazyheart
Rest In Peace: tomorrow,tomorrow
KayTheCurler
Well-Known Member
I haven't attended an Alpha course - almost did once but it was on the evening of the week when I was busy with something else. A friend attended but reported that it was a waste of time and she didn't learn anything new. She did however have her awareness of narrow minded, non thinking, Christian teachings confirmed. Simple questions from a book - simple answers she was supposed to accept as 'God's rules'. After two meetings she stopped going.
Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
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One would think people choosing to run the Alpha Course would - which is why my own church chose to go with Christianity Explored instead.
Alpha isn't really suitable for everyone. It seemed more for people that arent too familiar with Christianity or maybe trying to gather some basic information. Honestly if you had to start from scratch telling people about the Bible, Jesus, etc....what would you suggest to talk about as a starting point?
Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
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- He/Him/His
As starting points in telling someone about Christianity - 1. I would want to know from the person what they currently hold to be true - and why they're interested in learning about my faith. 2. I would invite them to one or more of my church's events such as a supper - that they might witness a community of loving Christians serving one another.
Seeler
Well-Known Member
That was my impression from the video shown the first night I attended - Alpha was intended as an introductory course for non-Christians seeking to know more about Christianity and for new Christians. However, almost everyone attending were people who had been involved in their churches for many years. I couldn't understand why so many long time Christians would be so enthused about an introductory level program (which I think overly-simplified the topic even for beginners).
Seeler
Well-Known Member
I think if I were to run a course for people interested in Christianity, but not yet fully engaged, I would begin by trying to find out who they are and perhaps something of their background - going round the circle please introduce yourselves and add a few sentences telling something about yourself , and what brought you here. I would also introduce myself and tell a bit about my qualifications and what my religion means to me. Next I would try to find out what questions they had, what topic they would like to discuss, etc. This might take the entire first session, and would give me some ideas for topics to use to open the next session. I would probably close with a prayer and an invitation to come back.
Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
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- He/Him/His
Alpha was originally a discipleship course. It was then modified - especially the first couple of sessions - to make it a course for seekers. That's why in the first video the speaker Nicky Gumbel talks about becoming a Christian - then marches right on in th rest of the videos as if everyone has accepted Christ. In my experience - which includes taking Alpha at a Christian Reformed Church - and attending sessions of it at a Presbyterian church and an Alliance Church - most of those who attend are - yes - regular church-goers. Why do they get so excited about the program? I think for a number of reasons -- the dinners are fun - the speaker's fairly good - they're spending time with their church friends - and they can comfort themselves with the thought that at least they're doing something in the area of evangelism.
Note - I don't know how the strike out feature got turned on. I'm using my wife's tablet.
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GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
This I know from experience: What I think affects what I do and what I do affects circumstance. On the foundation of this knowledge I try my best every day to discover and do what is good, trusting that progress along this way will bring advantage to any I may encounter along the way.
My primary concern is with being here now and I am not at all concerned about what will come to pass when my body is buried or burned.
My primary concern is with being here now and I am not at all concerned about what will come to pass when my body is buried or burned.
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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Nicely said. Since I am agnostic on the issue of the afterlife this pretty sums it up for me, too. I live to be the best person I can in this world and generally see heaven and hell as metaphors for what the world can be. If we screw up our environment, our relationships, and our lives, then it can turn into hell (and, indeed, it does for many people). If we live mindfully and do our best to make the world a better place for ourselves and those around us, then it can turn into heaven.