Grace and the Law

[unsafe]

Ephesians 3Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

Paul’s Work for the Non-Jewish People

3 So I, Paul, am a prisoner because I serve Christ Jesus for you who are not Jews.2 Surely you know that God gave me this work through his grace to help you.3 God let me know his secret plan by showing it to me. I have already written a little about this.4 And if you read what I wrote, you can see that I understand the secret truth about Christ.5 People who lived in other times were not told that secret truth. But now, through the Spirit, God has made it known to his holy apostles and prophets.6 And this is the secret truth: that by hearing the Good News, those who are not Jews will share with the Jews in the blessings God has for his people. They are part of the same body, and they share in the promise God made through Christ Jesus.
7 By God’s special gift of grace, I became a servant to tell that Good News. He gave me that grace by using his power.8 I am the least important of all God’s people. But he gave me this gift—to tell the non-Jewish people the Good News about the riches Christ has. These riches are too great to understand fully.9 And God gave me the work of telling all people about the plan for his secret truth. That secret truth has been hidden in him since the beginning of time. He is the one who created everything.10 His purpose was that all the rulers and powers in the heavenly places will now know the many different ways he shows his wisdom. They will know this because of the church.11 This agrees with the plan God had since the beginning of time. He did what he planned, and he did it through Christ Jesus our Lord.12 In Christ we come before God with freedom and without fear. We can do this because of our faith in Christ.13 So I ask you not to be discouraged because of what is happening to me. My sufferings are for your benefit—for your honor and glory.

 

[revsdd]

Unsafe really needs no help from me . But I could not believe what I found .
Jer 31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,

1Co 11:25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."

2Co 3:6 who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb 8:8 For he finds fault with them when he says: "The days will come, says the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;

Heb 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 9:15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant.

Heb 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel.

I think it be be possible you have forgotten GOD hid 10 of the Lost tribes of Israel . They are all over the world.But even better GOD has opened the door to all That would receive Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Thank you for the post, airclean. So you agree that the words "New Covenant of Grace" don't actually appear in the Bible but are interpretations of what does appear in the Bible, just as the words "Prosperity Gospel" don't actually appear in the Bible but are an interpretation of what does appear in the Bible.

I appreciate your detective work and your support of my position. Thanks.

 

[Luce NDs]

The good news is we know little and thus can be as innocent as Harper in what he didn't know about Duffy ... or not!

 

[unsafe]

Without Jesus there is no Saving Grace -----and no Sanctifying Grace ------ For it is by Grace (Jesus ) you have been saved through Faith in who ----Jesus ------There is power in Jesus who is Grace to purify us ----

Saving Grace

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.” (Eph 2:8) By His saving grace, God has paid the ransom for everyone who will receive His gift of salvation. This alone is overwhelming.

Sanctifying Grace

There is power in God’s grace and immediately after we are saved, it goes to work to purify or sanctify us. You play a part in your purification through obedience, but ultimately you have to count on His sanctifying grace and know that “he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion” (Philippians 1:6).

We all have been shown Common Grace from the Beginning ----from the Person God The Father who is Grace and sent His Son who is Grace to save us -----God's Grace From the Beginning ---Matthew 5:45 tells us, “He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.”

 

[Waterfall]

When Jesus said I came not to abolish the "law", was He not really saying, I did not come to abolish the Torah. Torah means instructions or teachings...not law and it is the legalistic observances of the Torah that become problematic.

When Christians say they are no longer under the law, are they not really saying they are no longer under the Torah, which is the first five books of the Bible?.....and I do not see evidence that Jesus wants us to ignore these scriptures seeing as He quoted them.

Perhaps grace allows us to find the correct interpretation. After all, what is setting aside some of ones farm land to offer some of the abundance to the poor ,if not grace? Or loving our enemy? Or determining when it's appropriate to loan money or to give it away? The Torah is also about community and how grace should enter into it, is it not?

 

[revsdd]

Gentiles were never under the Torah. The Torah was given to Israel. Jesus' interpretation of the Torah was a radical interpretation which saw the fulfillment of Torah taking place in love and mercy rather than strict and demanding obedience and was one of the things that put him at odds with the Pharisees.

 

[airclean33]

Jesus is Grace in the New Covenant -----

John 1:14-18New King James Version (NKJV)
The Word Becomes Flesh

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’”
16 And[a]of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,[b]who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Hi Unsafe -- I believe Grace is a gift . Not earned nor can you buy it.It is a gift from GOD to the world.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
airclean33-Gord

 

[revjohn]

When Jesus said I came not to abolish the "law", was He not really saying, I did not come to abolish the Torah. Torah means instructions or teachings...not law and it is the legalistic observances of the Torah that become problematic.

Yes Jesus did not come to abolish the Torah. Instead of abolishing the Torah he claims to have come to fulfill it? I think the discussion would be more profitable if we would engage in discussing what fulfilling the Law/Torah looked like.

When Christians say they are no longer under the law, are they not really saying they are no longer under the Torah which is the first five books of the Bible.....and I do not see evidence that Jesus wants us to ignore these scriptures seeing as He quoted them.

Well . . .Yes and no. I suspect that what they are really intending to communicate is something decidedly selfish and the claim actually establishes a double standard which they will use to judge others while justifying themselves.

Perhaps grace allows us to find the correct interpretation. After all, what is setting aside some of ones farm land to offer some of the abundance to the poor ,if not grace? Or loving our enemy? Or determining when it's appropriate to loan money or to give it away?

I think it very probable that grace opens up a space less for a "correct" interpretation and more for a faithful interpretation. After all correct could be eye for an eye when turning the other cheek is really what is desired.

 

[airclean33]

Gentiles were never under the Torah. The Torah was given to Israel. Jesus' interpretation of the Torah was a radical interpretation which saw the fulfillment of Torah taking place in love and mercy rather than strict and demanding obedience and was one of the things that put him at odds with the Pharisees.

Hi revsdd-- Are you saying here only Israel, was under the Laws?

 

[Waterfall]

Gentiles were never under the Torah. The Torah was given to Israel. Jesus' interpretation of the Torah was a radical interpretation which saw the fulfillment of Torah taking place in love and mercy rather than strict and demanding obedience and was one of the things that put him at odds with the Pharisees.

If we are not "under the Torah" should Christians ignore it then? Is the Torah not God speaking and Jesus is God and we follow Jesus....just asking?

 

[Waterfall]

Yes Jesus did not come to abolish the Torah. Instead of abolishing the Torah he claims to have come to fulfill it? I think the discussion would be more profitable if we would engage in discussing what fulfilling the Law/Torah looked like.

Would you please inform us what fulfilling the Law/Torah should look like?

 

[unsafe]

revsdd -----You are right that Grace is not mentioned with the words New Covenant ----My Bad ------

this is what the God's word says ------

2 Corinthians 3:6ESV

Who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[revjohn]

Would you please inform us what fulfilling the Law/Torah should look like?

I suspect it would look like loving God and loving our neighbour.

 

[revsdd]

If we are not "under the Torah" should Christians ignore it then? Is the Torah not God speaking and Jesus is God and we follow Jesus....just asking?

Please see Post #13, which was my original response to essentially the same question.

 

[airclean33]

Gentiles were never under the Torah. The Torah was given to Israel. Jesus' interpretation of the Torah was a radical interpretation which saw the fulfillment of Torah taking place in love and mercy rather than strict and demanding obedience and was one of the things that put him at odds with the Pharisees.

Yes Rev I agree with you here The Torah is also The Law.

1. The Written Law - Torah | Jewish Virtual Library
   http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/The_Written_Law.html The Torah, or Jewish Written Law, consists of the five books of the Hebrew Bible - known more commonly to non-Jews as the "Old Testament" - that were given ...

 

[revsdd]

Hi revsdd-- Are you saying here only Israel, was under the Laws?

The Law of Moses was given to Israel as a part of their covenant with God. The law for Gentiles was described by Paul, who acknowledged that Gentiles did not have a written law, but had instead the law written on their hearts. In other words, conscience. They still knew right from wrong.

 

[airclean33]

Nope. Not saying that at all. First, Law is only a small part of the Old Testament. Second, while not binding on Gentiles, the Law is still a revelation of God and God's priorities. But the Law was/is given to Israel, not to the Gentiles. Gentiles learn a lot about God by reading the Law, just as Canadians learn a lot about the United States by reading the US Constitution. But neither are binding to those who are not under it.

Question Rev--If The world were not under the Laws . How did it sin? John 3:16
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

 

[Waterfall]

The Law of Moses was given to Israel as a part of their covenant with God. The law for Gentiles was described by Paul, who acknowledged that Gentiles did not have a written law, but had instead the law written on their hearts. In other words, conscience. They still knew right from wrong.

Does the Noahide law have anything to do with Christians?

 

[airclean33]

The Law of Moses was given to Israel as a part of their covenant with God. The law for Gentiles was described by Paul, who acknowledged that Gentiles did not have a written law, but had instead the law written on their hearts. In other words, conscience. They still knew right from wrong.

I think you just answered a Question I was asking you. A problem I believe the Laws you speak of was for those Who received GODS Holy Spirit. Could you give chapter and verse ?

 

[unsafe]

Hi airclean33 -----your quote ---- I believe Grace is a gift -----you are so right -----it is a gift brought to us by Jesus Christ through Faith in Him ----With out Jesus there is no Grace ---you can't separate Jesus from Grace ----Grace is favor ---kindness ----a blessing ---Favor can't save us ---kindness can't save us -----Jesus who extends Himself to us gives us His favor --His kindness through us believing in Him -----


grace.5485(xáris) is preeminently used of the Lord's favor– to give Himself away to people

Strong's Concordance
charis: grace, kindness
Original Word:χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech:Noun, Feminine
Transliteration:charis
Phonetic Spellingkhar'-ece)
Short Definition:grace, favor, kindness
Definitiona) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness.

Definitiona) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness.


grace.5485(xáris) is preeminently used of the Lord's favor– to give Himself away to people (because He is "always leaning toward them").

This is how I personally see Grace ---

This is from -----http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/grace-is-not-a-thing ---read all here

What Is Grace?

I used to think of grace as a spiritual substance that God stores in piles behind his heavenly throne and dispenses to his people below. In other words, grace is stuff that God gives apart from himself. How wrong I was! Grace is not a thing. Grace is not stuff that God gives us apart from himself. He doesn’t run out of it. God gives us himself when we don’t deserve it; that is grace. The oft-repeated definition of grace as an undeserved gift is right but does not go far enough when referring to the grace of God. Grace is a gift, but God is not only the giver, he himself is the gift. God graces us with himself.