Grace and the Law

[Neo]

Spiritual Truth is not subject to consensus of the masses

Definitely agree with you on this.

 

[blackbelt1961]

And then there is the hypocrisy of the tradional take on astrology, another so called "new age" teaching. The Bible is chocked full of references to Astrology, even the Christ Himself was called the Lamb of God during a time when the Age of Aries was still so influential.

what ever age The Lamb of God was incarnated, would have been in one of the 12 zodiac ages , man through esoteric means gave the names of the ages not God the Creator, man in his ignorance looks to the created to understand the times, God said look to me, so God sends His Son into the false system WE created.

 

[Luce NDs]

Did we become illuminated or eliminated from wisdom?

 

[Luce NDs]

Could be a subtle or buried thing in the domain of cognizance. Like apocalypse people resting in the intellectual domain miss it ... something imaginary is inactive!

 

[airclean33]

Hi airclean33 ----This article on this word flesh ----- might help to clear things up ------see below

Paul is a good example of a person having the Holy Spirit and still struggling with what he does not to do but does ------Greek word for Flesh ---Sarx ----Understanding this word is very important ------http://biblehub.com/greek/4561.htm

4561. sarx►
Strong's Concordance
sarx: flesh
Original Word:σάρξ, σαρκός, ἡ
Part of Speech:Noun, Feminine
Transliteration:sarx
Phonetic Spellingsarx)
Short Definition:flesh, body
Definition:flesh, body, human nature, materiality; kindred.

HELPS Word-studies
4561sárksproperly,flesh("carnal"), merely of human origin or empowerment.
[4561/sárks("flesh") is not always evil in Scripture. Indeed, it is used positively in relation to sexual intercourse in marriage (Eph 5:31) – as well as for the sinless human body of Jesus (Jn 1:14; 1 Jn 4:2,3). Indeed ,flesh(what is physical) is necessary for the body to live out the faith the Lord works in(Gal 2:20).]

4561 (sarks) is generally negative, referring to making decisions (actions)according to self– i.e. done apart from faith(independent from God's in working). Thus what is "of the flesh(carnal)" is by definition displeasing to the Lord – even things that seem "respectable!" In short, flesh generally relates to unaided human effort, i.e. decisions (actions) that originate from self or are empowered by self. This is carnal("of the flesh") and proceeds out of the untouched(unchanged) part of us – i.e. what is not transformed by God.

This is a great article on this ----http://www.christcrucified.info/pdf/The Biblical Meaning of Flesh.pdf

The Biblical Meaning of “Flesh” ----worth the read -----

One factor contributing to Christians’ misunderstanding on how God has dealt with their old sinful nature is the translation of the Greek word sarx, which appears 147 times in the New Testament.

--- air clean I read some on this . The writer here seems to believe pretty much as I do.

This was not put together by me. But it could have been .
It is much of what I Believe
On the Use and Meaning Of the Word ‘Flesh’(sarx)
in the New Testament [1]
Alexander Snyman
‘Flesh’ (gr. sarx) is a word vitally connected with the subject of the Incarnation. It appears in three forms: sarx, which is usually translated flesh; sarkikos, usually carnal, sometimes fleshly, and sarkinos, fleshy.
Sarkinos appears only once in the New Testament, in 2 Corinthians 3:3.
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
Sarkikos appears eleven times; nine times translated carnal, and twice fleshly.
Examples of the former translation are:
Romans 7:14 … I am carnal, sold under sin.
1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal
And the latter translation appears, for instance, in:
1 Peter 2:11: Abstain from fleshly lusts
Sarx is found in no less than one hundred and fifty texts, usually translated flesh, but on three occasions it is translated carnal, or carnally. Examples of the latter are:
Romans 8:6

to be carnally minded (is) death (lit. ‘the minding of the flesh’)
Romans 8:7

the carnal mind (is) (lit. ‘the minding of the flesh’) enmity against God.
Hebrews 9:10

… and carnal ordinances
Practically every other instance where sarx is used indicates that reference is to man in his fallen state. Examples are:
Galatians 5:16

… lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:17

… the flesh lusteth against the Spirit.
Galatians 5:19
… works of the flesh are manifest (there then follows a long list of gross sins, such as adultery, fornication, uncleanness, etc.)
1 Peter 1:21

… filth of the flesh . . .
2 Peter 2:10

… them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness . . .
Ephesians 2:3
… in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh, and of the mind . . .

There are six references in the New Testament to the words of Genesis 2:24, “they shall be one flesh.” Four of these are by the Lord Jesus and two by the apostle Paul. Those by Jesus are found in Matthew 19:5 and 6, and Mark 10:8, while those of Paul are in 1 Corinthians 6:16 and Ephesians 5:31. It might conceivably be argued that these references are clearly to man in his unfallen state, but it must be remembered that these are all quoted from the Genesis record., and that they do not reflect the New Testament usage of the word sarx, or flesh. Frequently Jesus used the word flesh to refer to Himself, an important fact which will be considered shortly. In all other uses of the word He clearly referred to man in his fallen state. In all other uses of sarx the apostle Paul makes clear references to the sinful nature of man, except, of course, such a text as 1 Corinthians 15:39:

All flesh (is) not the same flesh: but (there is) one (kind of) flesh of men, another flesh of beasts.
Here Paul is dealing with a totally different kind of situation, contrasting the flesh of human beings with that of animals, and is not dealing with the question of whether sarx could apply to the unfallen state.
There are, too, the texts which refer to “those of the flesh” as members of the human race, such as:
Romans 9:3

… my kinsmen according to the flesh . . .
Romans 11:14

… (them which are) my flesh . . .

These, though not referring to the actual sinful or fallen aspects of the human race, nevertheless do refer to that human race which has inherited from Adam a fallen or sinful human nature. certainly there is nothing in these texts to connect them with man in his unfallen state.
Sometimes an objection is raised to this position based upon the words of Jesus in Luke 24:39: ‘Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for the spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have’. It is contended that the ‘flesh’ mentioned here is a superior kind such as Adam was given originally. However, it must be remembered that in this text we are seeing a post-resurrection appearance of our Lord, a time when He no longer had the body of His pre-resurrection life. His body was now a glorified body. It was not always so. John 7:39 clearly tells us: ‘Jesus was not yet glorified’. And later, in John 12:16, we read further: ‘These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him’. A little later, in verse 23, Jesus said: ‘The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified’.
When was Jesus glorified? Clearly, at the cross, where was revealed God’s ultimate love, agape, in the giving of His Son for a lost world. And when did Christ come to possess a glorified body? Clearly at His resurrection shortly after. We are told in Philippians 3:21 that our Lord Jesus Christ ‘Shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself’.
Therefore, to argue that Christ, during His life on earth, was given some kind of superior ‘flesh’, or ‘nature’, is to overlook what the above texts tell us of the time when He actually received His ‘glorified’ body.
Then there are the texts where Jesus tells His listeners that the ‘bread’ which He will give them is His ‘flesh.’ This appears several times in John 6 verses 51 to 56. Here, of course, it is obvious that Jesus is speaking of His ‘flesh’ symbolically, and it would be pointless to try to make a case for sarx as being either fallen or unfallen ‘flesh’ from these passages. In the event of a contention that the reference here is to the unfallen ‘flesh’ of Adam, the same logic would apply as given above in Luke 24:39.
Finally, we have the texts which use ‘flesh’ (sarx) as referring to the actual substance of which human beings are composed. Examples are:
Revelation 17:16

… shall eat her flesh . . .
Revelation 19:18

flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men … and the flesh of all men . . .
Revelation 19:21

… fowls were filled with their flesh . . .
In conclusion it can be stated that the overwhelming use of sarx, or flesh, in the New Testament, especially in the Pauline epistles, is to indicate the fallen, sinful, deteriorated human nature, which all human beings have inherited from Adam.
Wigram, George V. The Englishmans’s Greek Concordance of the New Testament. 9th ed. Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House, 1970​

 

[revsdd]

And then there is the hypocrisy of the tradional take on astrology, another so called "new age" teaching. The Bible is chocked full of references to Astrology, even the Christ Himself was called the Lamb of God during a time when the Age of Aries was still so influential.

I think you're stretching it to ridiculous proportions to suggest that the designation of Christ as the Lamb of God had anything to do with the "Age of Aries."

 

[GordW]

I think you're stretching it to ridiculous proportions to suggest that the designation of Christ as the Lamb of God had anything to do with the "Age of Aries."

You mean it isn't a reference to teh Temple Sacrificial ritual?

 

[Luce NDs]

Is the meat of the bones of sects ... something to die for if you got nun? Thus the broad based surrounding intelligence that blocks your exit to the ponderous zone ... the eternal out there? So when in there man cannot be cognizant of what is lost ... seminal unconscious data on building the ongoing child? Jinn etics ...

 

[Neo]

I think you're stretching it to ridiculous proportions to suggest that the designation of Christ as the Lamb of God had anything to do with the "Age of Aries."

I'm surprised you've never heard of this before. The relationship between this "designation" and Aries seems pretty reasonable.

We know that when the Sun was in the zodiacal sign of Taurus the Bull when sacrifices were being made as an attempt to wash away the sins with the blood of bulls. This was then replaced with the blood of the lamb while the sun was passing (via the precession of the equinoxes) through the zodiacal sign of Aries, the Ram. The idea of the blood of the Lamb of God dying for our sins and replacing the old idea of actual sheep dying for our sins seems kind of obvious.

Christ was born in the next age, the Age of Pisces, the Fish, and for this reason we eat fish on Fridays. ΙΧΘΥΣ is the Greek word for "fish" and was one of the earliest symbols for Christianity. Christ fed the multitude with two fish and five loaves of bread (Virgo, the Virgin is the opposite sign to Pisces and she holds a shaft of wheat in her hand).

The twelve tribes of Israel were more than likely representing the twelve signs of the zodiac, with the tribe of Judah representing Leo the Lion, the sign representing royalty and by ruled by the Sun. Christ, of course, was also known as the Lion of Judah.

All of this is not astrology, which in itself is divination and forecasting using the movement of the stars. These are symbols and signs in the heavens which were being reenacted in the stories and myths of the Bible.

The three "wise men" saw the signs in the heavens and knew the time had come for the child king to be born.

It's a shame that Christians today don't recognize these signs and symbols because it makes the Bible much more understandable.

"A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars"
- Revelations 12:1

 

[Hermann]

Grace and the Law just don't get along. She won't abide by any Law.

 

[Luce NDs]

When grace is putting passion into the law she insists the law be unconscious? Thus that mein blowing ig sample ... Agnus Dei?

Tis a roundabout theology to stretch time ...

 

[Spirit Wind 7]

It seems that the basic premise of God is love. That love is not like ours..... it is more than grace but grace is a free gift. Unearned, unwarranted but ours. The books of the Bible are written by humans who wrote for the people of their time. Much of which can be ours when translated in love, rather than the law. Our translations today are all from the later manuscripts and so are more accurate. Even so, words often have more than one meaning and so can be interpreted as the translator sees fits in the context.

If God loves, not the same as we do, because whole and filled and complete love does not need subservience. It carries on in us, with us, will not take advantage of us, or use us, or trick us, or do the human things that humans do to achieve what they want. Love cannot be swayed by our evil, or our good, because love loves us in all and every bit of our being. Now, that does not mean we realize that, or want it, or care. God's love does not depend on us humans. But human's loving God depends on the human.

We are loved in spite of us, but many do not understand that and until they have a grasp of this it is hard for them to hear anything about love.
Experiencing it helps understanding, actually it allows understanding. How can anyone understand losing a partner,
until they lost a partner?
We may be able to have empathy, but many cannot, but we can be with them silently walk, hold them, be there even in the background. It is taken in and does help. Whether spoken of, or not. Love is what we are here for and about. Loving your neighbour as yourself... means loving yourself, so you can love your neighbour. That is grace at work.

Jesus came to save the world not to condemn it. He focuses on the good in people calling them to think and go on living better lives, being more whole, loving themselves...then they have it to love others.

But we begin with God loving us, as we were created and born and along our lives. But often no one told children that. They need to hear it, to be held and to know they have a place at home and God loves... them. I think we know when we are very tiny, but things get in the way of that inborn knowledge.

God loves you. God bless.

 

[You just never know]

Thanks Spirit Wind.

 

[Waterfall]

Grace and the Law just don't get along. She won't abide by any Law.

Interesting comment......do you believe grace can exist without the law? Or is the law required for grace to exist?