Gender assignment

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I am concerned that changing gender identity seems to be a trend. I especially worry when young kids are deciding they are a different gender, asking for surgery........

I understand there are people who have ambiguous sex organs. But I feel like this is somehow a big social experiment. And a few people, who have mental health issues are caught up in it

In the same way that people with poor self esteem and mental health issues undergo tons of cosmetic surgery. The next nose job or chin job is finally going to make them feel better. This feels like an extreme case of the same thing

Occasionally you read articles where it feels like parents And doctors are allowing young kids to rush into life changing surgery. When perhaps what they need is mental health care, life coaching, time to recognize that you can be a feminine man or a masculine woman but still be happy as such.

I hope that we won’t see a huge problem down the road
 
GordW said:
For better or worse much of how we interact with others in our culture is shaped by gender assumptions. WE may wish that was not the case but in the end it is undeniable. Which is why I chose to ask the question.
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Does it need to be that way? What purpose does it serve, especially here in North America where we allegedly value some form of equality of the sexes. I know we're not there yet.

It would be nice if we could respect others enough to address them the way they wish to be addressed. I get to ask people to call use my proper name rather than the shortened version. Using the pronoun the person wishes is similar
 
GordW said:
For better or worse much of how we interact with others in our culture is shaped by gender assumptions. WE may wish that was not the case but in the end it is undeniable. Which is why I chose to ask the question.
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What gender assumptions do you think we make? That women will be more relational, that men will be more practical, for instance? If we make a few of these generalizations, we will soon find out that we 'know' very little about another person.
 
Lastpointe said:
I am concerned that changing gender identity seems to be a trend. I especially worry when young kids are deciding they are a different gender, asking for surgery........

I understand there are people who have ambiguous sex organs. But I feel like this is somehow a big social experiment. And a few people, who have mental health issues are caught up in it

In the same way that people with poor self esteem and mental health issues undergo tons of cosmetic surgery. The next nose job or chin job is finally going to make them feel better. This feels like an extreme case of the same thing

Occasionally you read articles where it feels like parents And doctors are allowing young kids to rush into life changing surgery. When perhaps what they need is mental health care, life coaching, time to recognize that you can be a feminine man or a masculine woman but still be happy as such.

I hope that we won’t see a huge problem down the road
Click to expand...

It's my understanding that the current strategy is usually something like a) delay hormonal changes via hormone blockers, while b) gender identity is worked out with the assistance of qualified professional(s), culminating in c) plans being made, and d) carried out when/as appropriate.
 
Northwind said:
Does it need to be that way?
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It doesn't need to be that way but so much of what we assume about gender is "hardcoded" by upbringing and environment that I don't think our generation is going to be rid of such assumptions. It's how we raise the next generation or two that will change it.

BetteTheRed said:
If we make a few of these generalizations, we will soon find out that we 'know' very little about another person.
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As I commented to Jae in another thread, making assumptions about other people based on demographic generalizations really doesn't respect individuality. We are inevitably going to do it at times because some of those assumptions are pretty engrained, but we should be conscious of it and mindful of the risks in doing so.
 
BetteTheRed said:
What gender assumptions do you think we make? That women will be more relational, that men will be more practical, for instance? If we make a few of these generalizations, we will soon find out that we 'know' very little about another person.
Click to expand...
Generalizations occur all the time
That men will be more handy with equipment
that women will be better with children
that men will be leaders
that women will be the secretary

it coudl go on.

that little girls like pink
that little boys like blue
that girls want to play with dolls
that boys want to build lego star wars
that girls want to dance, that boys don't
 
Pinga said:
Generalizations occur all the time
That men will be more handy with equipment
that women will be better with children
that men will be leaders
that women will be the secretary

it coudl go on.

that little girls like pink
that little boys like blue
that girls want to play with dolls
that boys want to build lego star wars
that girls want to dance, that boys don't
Click to expand...

And Pinga, just think about you and I specifically for a moment, because I think we share some personality traits. I think you could state pretty categorically that we have more masculine traits than many women do, particularly intellectually, but also emotionally, I think. If you start with these generalizations, it's like you start from the wrong point, and "knowing" becomes an "un-knowing".
 
Bette -- I totally agree re generalizations being bad.
I maybe misunderstood the point.

I think that it would be awesome if kids were able to grow up without a gender being named. I applaud the parents who attempt to do so.
I think of my granddaughter, and how from the moment she was born, actually even before, she was being stereotyped into gender role -- from her surroundings to her clothing to how she is described and rewarded. Yet, I find myself doing it to.

I have a sense that much of who we are falls into bell curves, for many characteristics, traits and desires.
I have a feeling that the generalizations and assumptions we (as society) have re genders pushes people away from their natural or preferred choice.

So, I have a sense that generalizations occur in many many areas by many man people with and wihtout awareness of doing so.
I wish it wasn't so.
 
Pinga said:
Generalizations occur all the time
That men will be more handy with equipment
that women will be better with children
that men will be leaders
that women will be the secretary

it coudl go on.

that little girls like pink
that little boys like blue
that girls want to play with dolls
that boys want to build lego star wars
that girls want to dance, that boys don't
Click to expand...

I think these things are generally true. They were all true with my siblings and I and our friends. Well, except that my brother and I preferred Star Trek toys to Star Wars toys.
 
Lastpointe said:
Occasionally you read articles where it feels like parents And doctors are allowing young kids to rush into life changing surgery. When perhaps what they need is mental health care, life coaching, time to recognize that you can be a feminine man or a masculine woman but still be happy as such.

I hope that we won’t see a huge problem down the road
Click to expand...


The purpose of this site is to give voice to an alternative to the dominant trans-activist and medical paradigm currently being touted by the media: 4thWaveNow
  • 4thWaveNow was started by the mother of a teenage girl who suddenly announced she was a “trans man” after a few weeks of total immersion in YouTube transition vlogs and other trans-oriented social media. (The daughter has since desisted from identifying as transgender.) After much research and fruitless searching for an alternative online viewpoint, this mom began writing about her deepening skepticism of the ever-accelerating medical and media fascination with the phenomenon of “transgender children.”
"It is my contention that the medical and psychological establishments are letting us all down in their rush to diagnose young people as “transgender,” then to give the message that medical treatment is the answer. Much of my writing now and in the future will focus on the adults who are pushing so many kids into extreme treatments. And I do consider hormones and surgery extreme treatment, if there is any possibility that something less drastic might be a solution."

Resource index
 
Last edited:
wow - that is a LOT of information. Thank you for sharing. I think it will take me quite some time to read through it.
 
Most important ....
  • Intersex children and adults are telling us that they want the freedom to make decisions about their own lives and bodies.
Working with intersex youth every day, I can tell you these kids are perfect as they are — and they are telling us that their bodies aren't shameful and don’t need to be “fixed.”

Kimberly Mascott Zieselman is executive director of interACT, an organization that advocates for intersex youth.
 
Let's make it clear that there's a difference between hormones and hormone blockers. Hormone blockers give young people a chance to take a breath, do some serious work in therapy before their bodies commit them in a more permanent, and less easy to alter, way.

Also, that there's a clear distinction between transgender and intersex.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Let's make it clear that there's a difference between hormones and hormone blockers. Hormone blockers give young people a chance to take a breath, do some serious work in therapy before their bodies commit them in a more permanent, and less easy to alter, way.

Also, that there's a clear distinction between transgender and intersex.
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Do some serious work in therapy...? What kind of therapy do you have in mind here Bette?
 
BetteTheRed said:
Hormone blockers give young people a chance to take a breath, do some serious work in therapy before their bodies commit them in a more permanent, and less easy to alter, way.
Click to expand...

Many professionals remain critical about the puberty-blocking treatment (e.g.25, 41, 42).

The primary counterarguments are as follows:

1. At Tanner stage 2 or 3, the individual is not sufficiently mature or authentically free to take such a decision.25, 41

2. It is not possible to make a certain diagnosis of GD in adolescence, because in this phase, gender identity is still fluctuating.25, 41, 42

3. Moreover, puberty suppression may inhibit a ‘spontaneous formation of a consistent gender identity, which sometimes develops through the “crisis of gender”’ (p. 375).43

4. Considering the high percentage of desisters, early somatic treatment may be premature and inappropriate.25

5. Research about the effects of early interventions on the development of bone mass and growth – typical events of hormonal puberty – and on brain development is still limited,7 so we cannot know the long-term effects on a large number of cases.

6. Although current research suggests that there are no effects on social, emotional and school functioning, ‘potential effects may be too subtle to observe during the follow-up sessions by clinical assessment alone’ (p. 1895).25

7. The impact on sexuality has not yet been studied, but the restriction of sexual appetite brought about by blockers may prevent the adolescent from having age-appropriate socio-sexual experiences.41

8. In light of this fact, early interventions may interfere with the patient's development of a free sexuality and may limit her or his exploration of sexual orientation.41, 42

9. Finally, for trans girls (natal boys with a female gender identification), the blockage of phallic growth may result in less genital tissue available for an optimal vaginoplasty.44

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2444866417301101

Download PDF
Buying time or arresting development?
The dilemma of administering hormone blockers in trans children and adolescents.
 
10 Ways The Transgender Push Mirrors The Lobotomy Craze
We can learn a lot by looking back at history. Here I revisit the rise and fall of the lobotomy and compare it to today’s enthusiasm for altering children’s bodies to match their gender identities.

Many parents are concerned we may be in the midst of another disastrous medical fad. Our kids’ sudden change in gender identities has been easily accepted by their peers, schools, therapists, and doctors. Puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones and surgeries are routinely encouraged as necessary next steps. The level of enthusiasm is stunning. There’s an absence of caution. We don’t know how many young people will grow up to regret their permanently altered bodies.

The uncritical championing of child transition will eventually fizzle. Lessons will be learned. Science will evolve. Eventually books and documentaries may try to explain how things got so out of hand. How long that will take is anyone’s guess.

A version of this article first appeared on 4thWaveNow, a blog for LGB-supportive parents concerned about the increasing trend to medically “transition” gender-nonconforming youth.
 
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