Fort McMurray Fire

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Carolla said:
Years ago we stayed at a guesthouse in the southwest US. All around the house, the foliage had been removed - no grasses, no trees, no shrubs etc. I asked about it - "a firebreak" was the reply. Living in an urban centre, I'd never even considered this ... was interesting. I think there was also an external sprinkler system - not to grow grass, but to soak everything in the event of a fire.
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I thought forest fires dont necessarily travel along tbe ground? It can jump from tree top to tree top.And didnt someone say upthread this fire jumped the Athabaska River? What strikes me the most in tbis situation, is that there is only one highway to get out for a city of 100,000, in a high risk area for fires.
 
That highway has been a concern for awhile. It is very busy and there have been some terrible crashes on it. The Alberta government has been under fire because it's plans for twinning the highway have not been fast enough. The fact that it is the only way in and out has also been a concern. I imagine geography has something to do with it, but as you say, it is hard large city now. It is amazing that everyone got out safely and in a relatively orderly fashion.
 
Everyone did not get out safely. A 15 year old was killed when the SUV her cousin was driving collided head on with a semi.
 
Waterfall said:
I thought forest fires dont necessarily travel along tbe ground? It can jump from tree top to tree top.And didnt someone say upthread this fire jumped the Athabaska River? What strikes me the most in tbis situation, is that there is only one highway to get out for a city of 100,000, in a high risk area for fires.
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Yes - in a forested area, tree-top jumps do occur. In the southwest, it is not so much dense forest but chapparal, shrubby grasslands etc that catch fire - similar to the wildfires California. With the hot dry climate, the risk of wildfire is high - and so there are many things people do to protect their homes & businesses - this is an interesting read - http://disastersafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/wildfire_southwest-guide.pdf Not the sort of thing we northern urban dweller often think much about.
 
When crap happens are there incidents due to emotional responses?

Don't get me wrong ... I believe it a sad case ! Humans are not that cool in situations of polity ... extremism?
 
Waterfall-There were 2 ways to exit Fort Mac. Sometimes the only way out was North-to the "camps". Some of these even have their own airstrips.

Sometimes the way out was south. Sometimes both were open. The "camps" were a temporary refuge.

I know other cities with only one road-Whitehorse, Invik, Manning, High Level, Eagle Plains all come to mind. Now none of these are as large as Fort Mac.
 
This thing seems to be growing exponentially. I keep hearing it's expected to double. 200000 hectares and they are saying double tomorrow if it continues. Evacuation areas keep growing.
Good news is that Anzac is better than expected.
Suncor is a concern now.
 
Waterfall said:
I thought forest fires dont necessarily travel along tbe ground? It can jump from tree top to tree top.
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Fire travels anyway it can and it burns everything it can. In a typical forest once the flame reaches the crowns of trees there are more points of connection for flame to travel and in the right conditions flame moves faster than most living things so the most intense and spectacular flame bursts from tree top to tree top.

Then it starts to burn down trees in much the same ways that candles burn. As long as their is fuel the fire keeps burning.

When it hits the ground it is dealing with rotting wood which tends to be damper and thus slightly more resistant to flame, though not impervious obviously. One of the other resistance factors is that by the time the fine gets that low there is less area for oxygen to be drawn into the burning process. The fire triangle is less of an equilateral and the fire begins to stumble. It isn't ready to go down yet.

Waterfall said:
And didnt someone say upthread this fire jumped the Athabaska River?
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Sparks from one side of the river are carried by highwinds feeding the fire to the other side and when they land on something else that is flammable away it goes. Like relay runners passing a baton.

Waterfall said:
What strikes me the most in tbis situation, is that there is only one highway to get out for a city of 100,000, in a high risk area for fires.
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Not really that unusual a situation given the geography and population density. How many other communities in the area? In Newfoundland and Labrador most of our communities are coastal. The last stop on any highway only has one road into town and it is the same road that runs out of town. In order to reduce road maintenance costs many communities are concentrating on one road access. You can take your chance on the old roads if you wish.
 
It had never occurred to me how unusual was my central Ontario life on a veritable grid of roads - the backbone of this part of Ontario is a Concession Road crossed by a Line, both at 1 1/4 mile intervals. There are dozens of "roads out of town", an infinity of ways to get from A to B.
 
BetteTheRed said:
It had never occurred to me how unusual was my central Ontario life on a veritable grid of roads - the backbone of this part of Ontario is a Concession Road crossed by a Line, both at 1 1/4 mile intervals. There are dozens of "roads out of town", an infinity of ways to get from A to B.
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I don't know that it is that unusual, at least in Ontario. What you describe pretty much fits most of Central and Southern Ontario. I think, though, that that is a product of being fairly population-dense, flat and agricultural. In rougher or more sparsely populated areas, roads become more expensive to build and maintain and sometimes geography dictates where they go (as John describes in Nfld as well as in the mountains where they have to follow valleys or passes).
 
revjohn said:
Also true and like it or not fire is necessary for some trees to give birth to a new generation. It isn't the forest that laments the fire.
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One of the great ironies of existence is that the most destructive forces are often also the most constructive ones. Volcanoes build new land mass and blanket the land with rich volcanic ash. Wildfires clear land to allow the regeneration of the forests. And so on.

These disasters are not punishments from God, as some used to think (and, alas, a few apparently still do though I have not heard any of that in this case). They are simply us getting in the way of the very processes that enabled us to exist in the first place.
 
Fires can also spread underground through roots

It is why when you are camping you must use the designated fire pit. Even though it may not look like it , the rangers have dug it out and cut out the roots and filled it back in

So very hard to completely extinguish a forest fire. The roots smolder underground for ages
 
Also, some tyoes of trees wont be destroyed by fire. They can burn boack but still be alive. Fire is a natural forest regeneation thing
 
Lastpointe said:
Fires can also spread underground through roots

It is why when you are camping you must use the designated fire pit. Even though it may not look like it , the rangers have dug it out and cut out the roots and filled it back in

So very hard to completely extinguish a forest fire. The roots smolder underground for ages
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Didn't know that, though we always do
 
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