Euthanasia in Canada, Supreme Court Ruled this Morning

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
ChemGal said:
Some might, not everyone. Some would be glad there loved one doesn't have to suffer. There are worse things than death for some. You don't get to choose what is better or worse for everyone.
Click to expand...

I don't think they should get to choose what's better or worse for those left behind, if they're not terminally ill. If they are - I have a different view of that.

So, then they leave people with great pain and suffering too, and what do those people do, put in a request to the doctor also? The whole idea of asking for suicide from a doctor if you're not dying to be perverse. It will have a net negative impact on society and our collective values.
 
ChemGal said:
I think that is completely arrogant and non-empathetic of you.
Click to expand...

It is? Maybe it is arrogant and non-empathetic of you not to realize that there are people who live lives that are valuable and they may cope with incredible pain sometimes but still keep going because they have dignity and integrity and don't give up easy because life's not supposed to be easy but it can be worthwhile despite that and so what about what happens to the son or daughter or spouse who gets left behind to grieve because of someone else's decision to end their life and what pain and suffering they might be left to cope with? Why is that not worthy of consideration?
 
Kimmio said:
It is? Maybe it is arrogant and non-empathetic of you not to realize that there are people who live lives that are valuable and they may cope with incredible pain sometimes but still keep going because they have dignity and integrity and don't give up easy because life's not supposed to be easy but it can be worthwhile despite that and so what about what happens to the son or daughter or spouse who gets left behind to grieve because of someone else's decision to end their life and what pain and suffering they might be left to cope with? Why is that not worthy of consideration?
Click to expand...
Where have I said I don't realize that? I'm pointing out it's different for everyone. You're the one who wants everyone to see it exactly the same as you here.
 
Kimmio said:
It is? Maybe it is arrogant and non-empathetic of you not to realize that there are people who live lives that are valuable and they may cope with incredible pain sometimes but still keep going because they have dignity and integrity and don't give up easy because life's not supposed to be easy but it can be worthwhile despite that and so what about what happens to the son or daughter or spouse who gets left behind to grieve because of someone else's decision to end their life and what pain and suffering they might be left to cope with? Why is that not worthy of consideration?
Click to expand...

actually, Carolla isn't saying that. Carolla is letting people make their own decisions.

You are the one expressing your belief that people don't have the right to do that.

So no, Carolla isn't being arrogant & non-empathetic -- that's you saying what she thinks?
 
Inannawhimsey said:
actually, Carolla isn't saying that. Carolla is letting people make their own decisions.

You are the one expressing your belief that people don't have the right to do that.

So no, Carolla isn't being arrogant & non-empathetic -- that's you saying what she thinks?
Click to expand...
Not Carolla, but close enough :)
 
They don't have the right to devalue my life and limit my future options. Once this takes hold...attitudes about living with pain will change and that is the danger. And it is selfish of people to entertain the idea that living with a disability is worse than death. Selfish towards everybody else choosing to live with it. Why would the government put any effort into supports for the living, if life with the pain of disability loses value?
 
Kimmio said:
They don't have the right to devalue my life and limit my future options. Once this takes hold...attitudes about living with pain will change and that is the danger. And it is selfish of people to entertain the idea that living with a disability is worse than death. Selfish towards everybody else choosing to live with it. Why would the government put any effort into supports for the living, if life with the pain of disability loses value?
Click to expand...
You're concerned it will change attitudes, I don't think that will be the case for the vast majority. I don't think this is going to lead to generalized ideas. You keep bring this down to just pain. I see this as how much suffering one should have to bear. What is too much for one person, might not be too much for another.
 
Who is trying to devalue your life

Or anyones.


The point is that people can decide how they want to live their own lives

Or not


Someone may be unable to cope, get help and then go on. Others may not.

You want everyone to have the same opinion as you

The rest of us seem to be saying, lets safeguard people and give them choices. The same sorts of choices that as adults they make about every other aspect of their lives.

Why should death decisions be treated differently than life decisions
 
I disagree. Big shifts in policy change attitudes - for better or worse. And in this case we're headed for worse. And no, personal choice doesn't reign supreme over collective responsibility.
 
ChemGal said:
You're concerned it will change attitudes, I don't think that will be the case for the vast majority. I don't think this is going to lead to generalized ideas. You keep bring this down to just pain. I see this as how much suffering one should have to bear. What is too much for one person, might not be too much for another.
Click to expand...
Do the factors causing the suffering matter to you? Like "it's too much to bear for me to adjust to being 'crippled'. It would change my life too much and bring me too much suffering" do you see how that kind of attitude is selfish? My God, if humanity hadn't endured through suffering we would not have achieved anything, learned anything or created great works of anything. Imagine the suffering of slaves, and POWs, and artists and builders of evolved societies who endured suffering to become game changers.

Or, do you see how it could lead families to consider how much effort they're willing to put into caring for a loved one who's become disabled and the disabled person's guilt about and loss of options that could cause them 'suffering' enough to consider that they're life is of no value, and so, then, how this leads us down a path to an even more selfish society that doesn't value life, with the ups and downs it brings, or the effort to care for life but comes to prefer easy outs?
 
Last edited:
Kimmio said:
Do the factors causing the suffering matter to you? Like "it's too much to bear for me to adjust to being 'crippled'. It would change my life too much and bring me too much suffering" do you see how that kind of attitude is selfish? My God, if humanity hadn't endured through suffering we would not have achieved anything, learned anything or created great works of anything.

Or, do you see how it could lead families to consider how much effort they're willing to put into caring for a loved one who's become disabled and the disabled person's guilt about and loss of options that could cause them 'suffering' enough to consider that they're life is of no value, and so, then, how this leads us down a path to an even more selfish society that doesn't value life, with the ups and downs it brings, or the effort to care for life but comes to prefer easy outs?
Click to expand...
Yes, the factors matter, especially if they are ones that can be changed. That's where bringing this out into the open can be very helpful.
I don't think there's anything heroic or wonderful about enduring horrible suffering just for the sake of enduring it.

I don't see this as not valuing people, it's valuing them enough to accept when they say it's too much to bear that we believe them. It's not about ups and downs or easy outs.

Your are entitled to your opinion, but I see you forcing your ideals on everyone else in this case.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top