Euthanasia in Canada, Supreme Court Ruled this Morning

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I never said PWDs are lazy. I was commenting about people whose disabilities are so severe they need total care and are physically unable to work.
 
Kimmio said:
I don't understand what you mean? Can you expand?
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My impairments makes it so that I can't walk for 30 minutes at a time some days. To me, hereditary angioedema is the impairment. The swelling could also be able to be described as the impairment, that causes the disability of not being able to walk.
Disability - negation of an ability.
 
ChemGal said:
My impairments makes it so that I can't walk for 30 minutes at a time some days. To me, hereditary angioedema is the impairment. The swelling could also be able to be described as the impairment, that causes the disability of not being able to walk.
Disability - negation of an ability.
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Are there any assistive devices that could facilitate your movement or is it possible (not is it likely but is it possible) that your working arrangements could be customized to allow you to work when you are feeling well and not work when you are not feeling well, or some workplace modifications that could be made so you can work?
 
Kimmio said:
Are there any assistive devices that could facilitate your movement or is it possible (not is it likely but is it possible) that your working arrangements could be customized to allow you to work when you are feeling well and not work when you are not feeling well, or some workplace modifications that could be made so you can work?
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Why are you putting this down to working?
 
Kimmio said:
Okay, to do daily activities. Working, because economic equality and social opportunity is greater for people who are working.
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You ignored my comment. When I asked again, you asked for further clarification. Now that I have provided it, you're changing the subject.
 
Not being able to walk, WHO would call an activity restriction resulting directly from the impairment (although people who have no legs and use wheelchairs might disagree). Disability is still out in society. How society responds to you not being able to walk.
 
Kimmio said:
Not being able to walk, WHO would call an activity restriction resulting directly from the impairment (although people who have no legs and use wheelchairs might disagree). Disability is still out in society. How society responds to you not being able to walk.
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Thanks. I'm still not a fan of limiting what a disability is so much. It doesn't mean I'm against the social model, I think it should be specified. Good to know what terms are used when the definitions are restricted though.
 
Kimmio said:
It is an able-bodied world. They may not be conscious that they design the world that way but once it's built - PWDs have to struggle in one way or another to adapt. It's not their fault, is it?
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Of course not. Poor PWDs......:rolleyes:

As long as you put the control of your life outside of yourself you will never be happy. Of course there are barriers. Of course that needs to change. Unfortunately we will not see a barrier-free world in our lifetime. You can blame me and other apparently able-bodied people and stay stuck. That's your choice. You can focus on your disability and ignore your abilities. You for instance have trouble with mobility, yet you are able to walk. There are many things you can do, including my job, if you had the right experience and education. Your physical state would have little impact on how you did that job and many others.
 
ChemGal said:
Thanks. I'm still not a fan of limiting what a disability is so much. It doesn't mean I'm against the social model, I think it should be specified. Good to know what terms are used when the definitions are restricted though.
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The purpose for limiting it is human rights. To seperate the impairment itself from the attitudes that create the systems and environments that create the barriers to equality - or that can change and bring equality.
 
Northwind said:
Of course not. Poor PWDs......:rolleyes:

As long as you put the control of your life outside of yourself you will never be happy. Of course there are barriers. Of course that needs to change. Unfortunately we will not see a barrier-free world in our lifetime. You can blame me and other apparently able-bodied people and stay stuck. That's your choice. You can focus on your disability and ignore your abilities. You for instance have trouble with mobility, yet you are able to walk. There are many things you can do, including my job, if you had the right experience and education. Your physical state would have little impact on how you did that job and many others.
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What makes you think I ignore my abilities? One of the things that 'enables' me , motivates me, is my experience and what that gives me to debate this issue...if I do say so myself. Control over my life is not outside myself - except when it really is. I don't think you understand that. When policies get made for PWDs without them, when workplaces are designed without a thought to PWDs, etc. All we have control over is to strive to go along with it to meet norms. We don't have the control over our lives enough to live just as we are without living up to able-bodied norms. Not fully. It's better here than in say, Eastern Europe, but it's not fair to say we really have a choice when able bodied norms determine what choices we can make.

I don't want to be 'happy' I want to see equality happen. I imagine I won't be 'happy' as I struggle with that. So?
 
You are putting all your focus on oppression and society's part in keeping PWDs down. I actually understand more than you realize. As I said previously, recognizing allies and not alienating them helps. Not all able bodied people are out to keep you down.
 
Northwind said:
You are putting all your focus on oppression and society's part in keeping PWDs down. I actually understand more than you realize. As I said previously, recognizing allies and not alienating them helps. Not all able bodied people are out to keep you down.
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I know. But here people's first instinct is to say "you're wrong you don't know what you're talking about you're out of your guorde, I have more credentials, I have a kid with a disability so somehow I know better what it is like to experience disability, I'm an OT or a nurse" or whatever (with regard to my anxiety about this ruling, notice Hermann's point about soft discrimination and nobody slammed him or called him 'sick'?)

And all I am bloody well trying to do is argue for better more dependable awareness of human rights so PWDs are not compromised by this ruling. And I am starting with...how we understand disability matters. The difference between equating it with impairment and locating it with society matters. This ruling did not locate it with society - and that matters. In and of itself that says that we don't care how this ruling impacts you as equal persons. We don't regard you as equal persons.Your person is equal to illness and disease in our legal estimation..
 
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Kimmio said:
The purpose for limiting it is human rights. To seperate the impairment itself from the attitudes that create the systems and environments that create the barriers to equality - or that can change and bring equality.
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I don't see how ignoring the fact that there are other, fairly accepted, definitions will accomplish that. I think it's possible to either specify the model, or come up with something new that doesn't already have other definitions.
 
ChemGal said:
I don't see how ignoring the fact that there are other, fairly accepted, definitions will accomplish that. I think it's possible to either specify the model, or come up with something new that doesn't already have other definitions.
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The universally aknowledged definitions aren't yet accepted in narrower circles - and it's a sticking point because, especially in bio-medical fields, their heals are pretty dug in and they have a lot of weight in what happens. That's a problem. That's something to challenge though, not to accept and try to fit into. Not accepting other definitions has everything to do with accepting and upholding human rights that are already established. I don't see how the medical model or its offshoots will do anything to address the discrimination that having to live up to able-bodied norms creates. I see that when PWDs do that they are actually giving up their full equality as persons as they are in their own right. Often they have no choice. I didn't always have this point of view myself. I learned it.
 
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