No. But it waivers my trust in professionals to think that they might feel that way. I disagree with the particular ones here. I am thankful there are many who disagree with them.
Euthanasia in Canada, Supreme Court Ruled this Morning
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No. But it waivers my trust in professionals to think that they might feel that way. I disagree with the particular ones here. I am thankful there are many who disagree with them.
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
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I don't think you've ever had trust in professionals
Just like you don't have trust in med doctors
And don't trust capitalists
And those who work in business offices
But again, that is YOUR responsibility and your particular prejudice
I have had trust in some. I have in general a lot of respect for social workers and counsellors. I have seen some good doctors (but have experienced too many bad ones that I wonder why they even want to work with people). I respect holistic approaches to illness - inter-disciplinary teams that respect each others professions, not just each profession in their silos.
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
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And there we go. a nub of the Truth: your own anxieties & fears of your own life that you then hang out on something outside yourself.
There is no opposition. The opposition lies within yourself.
Your experiences, your interpretations, the various models you use to experience and understand reality are all your responsibility.
None of us get to decide for others whether their life is valid.
Only you get to do that
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
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that's good to read :3
@Pinga I so appreciate your support and your desire to learn more. I can't imagine the depths of pain that you felt losing your twins and admire your resilience.
I really find this article (it's pretty short) about the garbage truck that is depression speaks to my experience http://www.drjoecarver.com/clients/49355/File/DEPRESSION - Causes, Symptoms, and Treatment.html
For me it is the constant self-doubt (did I do that right? will she hate me? did i hurt their feelings? why can't i do that? why can "everyone else" do that? why can't i ever figure things out?) and the self-deprecation - (you are evil. you suck. you can't do anything. everyone can set their mind to do something and do it but you still screw things up (and then there is a long list of all that I have done wrong). I hate never knowing if what I am perceiving is real or a construct of my brain. Or if I'm really happy wondering if I am becoming hypomanic or going into a "mixed state" (which is so painful) or if my tics will suddenly appear and how will i hide them from my family, friends or associates. I hate the fact that when I tell someone how I am feeling the first response is that my brain is tricking me - I feel like I am always having to prove my experience. I also have those rotten dreams where God is telling me that I am evil. I also hate wondering if/when the "other shoe" will drop and I'll be launched back into the abyss of depression/mania hell.
I think that people naturally want to see most (if not all) depression as situational - I spent years with people trying to figure out what was wrong with my environment and not with working on what I was experiencing/feeling. It is true that I have had trauma but even when I "fixed" my environment I still felt this way.
It really upsets me that I consume so many resources despite being so privileged. (How dare I...). I feel especially guilty about using CMHA resources when one of the criteria is that you are supposed to vulnerably housed - but no where else offers the level of support I seem to need. It's really hard not to despise myself for things like this and for all the people who say I have hurt them.
Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT) that I have talked about so much has been such a game changer for me. I am much better now than I was a year ago even. Some days are still tough slogs and I'll think I'm using skills or techniques when I'm actually not actually using them fully.
I really find this article (it's pretty short) about the garbage truck that is depression speaks to my experience http://www.drjoecarver.com/clients/49355/File/DEPRESSION - Causes, Symptoms, and Treatment.html
For me it is the constant self-doubt (did I do that right? will she hate me? did i hurt their feelings? why can't i do that? why can "everyone else" do that? why can't i ever figure things out?) and the self-deprecation - (you are evil. you suck. you can't do anything. everyone can set their mind to do something and do it but you still screw things up (and then there is a long list of all that I have done wrong). I hate never knowing if what I am perceiving is real or a construct of my brain. Or if I'm really happy wondering if I am becoming hypomanic or going into a "mixed state" (which is so painful) or if my tics will suddenly appear and how will i hide them from my family, friends or associates. I hate the fact that when I tell someone how I am feeling the first response is that my brain is tricking me - I feel like I am always having to prove my experience. I also have those rotten dreams where God is telling me that I am evil. I also hate wondering if/when the "other shoe" will drop and I'll be launched back into the abyss of depression/mania hell.
I think that people naturally want to see most (if not all) depression as situational - I spent years with people trying to figure out what was wrong with my environment and not with working on what I was experiencing/feeling. It is true that I have had trauma but even when I "fixed" my environment I still felt this way.
It really upsets me that I consume so many resources despite being so privileged. (How dare I...). I feel especially guilty about using CMHA resources when one of the criteria is that you are supposed to vulnerably housed - but no where else offers the level of support I seem to need. It's really hard not to despise myself for things like this and for all the people who say I have hurt them.
Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT) that I have talked about so much has been such a game changer for me. I am much better now than I was a year ago even. Some days are still tough slogs and I'll think I'm using skills or techniques when I'm actually not actually using them fully.
I can relate to justme's feelings of depression. I go through many of the same "what ifs" and fears and self loathing at times. And I don't think people should feel guilty for using resources they need that help them - especially since other good options aren't very available.
Northwind
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Apparently I need to clarify my views here.
When I say that depression CAN be a terminal condition, I am saying it is for a small minority. You have seen the DES in Vancouver and know that not all addicts get well.
I am definitely NOT saying you are wrong to have hope. It is good that you have hope. I'm glad you want to live. Did you not read that before when I wrote it????
I am saying it is up to the individual to decide if they want to end their life. I am not going to help them do that. I am going to help them find hope. I am going to help them live at least another day if I can. I am in the business of helping people.
I think Inanna has made some good points. You don't trust any professionals and you are using this discussion to validate your views.
Please read what I have written and quit putting words in my mouth.
- I am pro-life - all life is valuable even those lives who challenge those beliefs.
- I am also pro-choice - I believe it is up to the individual to make a choice about their life (there are some limits i.e. driving after drinking etc)
- It is not the government's place to make life and death decisions for others.
- I am NOT saying every experience with depression is hopeless. Good grief. I want people to get well as much as you do Kimmio.
When I say that depression CAN be a terminal condition, I am saying it is for a small minority. You have seen the DES in Vancouver and know that not all addicts get well.
I am definitely NOT saying you are wrong to have hope. It is good that you have hope. I'm glad you want to live. Did you not read that before when I wrote it????
I am saying it is up to the individual to decide if they want to end their life. I am not going to help them do that. I am going to help them find hope. I am going to help them live at least another day if I can. I am in the business of helping people.
I think Inanna has made some good points. You don't trust any professionals and you are using this discussion to validate your views.
Please read what I have written and quit putting words in my mouth.
I am not the only one my life affects and vica versa, etc, etc. Everyone's life is valid.And there we go. a nub of the Truth: your own anxieties & fears of your own life that you then hang out on something outside yourself.
There is no opposition. The opposition lies within yourself.
Your experiences, your interpretations, the various models you use to experience and understand reality are all your responsibility.
None of us get to decide for others whether their life is valid.
Only you get to do that
I do trust professionals - not automatically. I have to meet them and get a sense that they understand me. I have met some who I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw them because they are terrible at human interaction. The little I know of you I trust you...that you care about people very much and respect life. Please understand that while going through depression and fighting it my own way (me: I'll be down and deal with down - I'll be wobbly and stiff and arthritic and deal with wobbly and stiff and arthritic - but ain't nobody gonna tell me that dead is any kind of choice!) it is hard, infuriating actually, to hear the pro side of this argument while I'm fighting through a difficult time.
Northwind
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Kimmio you do not like being told what to do. I do not like being told what to do. You want to be able to live life the way you chose. I do too. Don't you think there are some people who would like to chose how to end their own lives? On their terms?
This is not and should not be an easy discussion.
This is not and should not be an easy discussion.
I wouldn't say that even those addicts lives are hopeless. I know many don't get well. Their socioeconomic conditions are worse than they are - that's where society has a responsibility to change things so they don't have to feel hopeless. Even an addict, if put into better circumstances, can apply harm reduction to manage their condition and have a better quality of life. Much harder if they're sleeping on a filthy street.
Pinga
Room for All
@Justme, What i hear is that just like there are many different levels of pain and terminal illness (my mom had non-hodgkin's lymphoma which was fine until near the end), there are different types of pain from depression, and different types of depression. Thanks again for your wisdom/experience.
Delightful Life
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Exactly!
And everyone who is competent (that is, legally) has the responsibility for their life and no one else.
Well, no. Not always. That individual is someone's son or daughter or spouse or parent or best friend. They might want to, but it's not so simple.
We all have responsibility to each other.
Northwind
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Kimmio I need to clarify again. I do believe that where there's life, there's hope. Even the addicts on the DES can get sober. Some though will die in their addiction. It is a fact of life. I am well aware of all the factors involved in addiction. Unfortunately there are some who will die drunk. Bill W and Dr Bob knew that in the 30's when they started AA.